WTB: Haist "Modern Photographic Processing" vol 1 & 2

Discussion in '[Classifieds] Want to Buy' started by Rafal Lukawiecki, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    I'd like to buy Grant Haist's two volumes of Modern Photographic Processing. Shipping to US (if soon) or to Ireland (later). Thank you.
     
  2. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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  3. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    Thank you, Michael. I'll see if anyone wants to sell their used copy, first, as I would like to save a bit on the price if I can. Out of interest, is the book a bit limited when it comes to neutral rapid fixers, or the role of sodium sulfite in that context?
     
  4. Sepia Hawk

    Sepia Hawk Member

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  5. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    Rafal, most of the thiosulfate fixers/formulas (sodium, ammonium, other) discussed in Haist are hardening types, and therefore acidic fixers are the focus.

    My sense here is that when it comes to serious photochemistry research from Kodak etc, there simply isn't that much out there regarding neutral/alkaline fixation. My two cents is that the interest in buffered neutral/alkaline fixation is a more recent phenomenon due to a few factors:

    1. Less need for hardening during processing as current film emulsions are well hardened
    2. Renewed interest in staining/tanning developers
    3. Environmental concerns (ie interest in shorter washing times)

    It seems to me by the time we all got really interested in these things, photochemistry research at Kodak etc had already essentially come to a halt. So when it comes to neutral/alkaline rapid fixation, we're mostly left to independent formulators/engineers. It then becomes more difficult to know with certainty what works (and how it works), what doesn't work, what is true or not, etc.
     
  6. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    Michael, this is exactly my sentiment, but you are a good few steps ahead of me, having looked into this already. I am grateful you are willing to share your knowledge, thank you for that. As you may have noticed from some of my recent threads, there is a lot of "feeling" in the community, but near-zero actual fact-based, first-hand knowledge of what the chemistry may be. While I am surprised to find that state of affairs, I should not be, considering what you just wrote.

    I suppose I have a bit of energy, and some drive, to get a few neutral fixer experiments done, and that is why I am stocking up on wisdom, first, as much as I can. I'll report how things work out. Unfortunately, whatever I come up with, will just work for me, my water, my paper, my process... I have no chemical engineering skills to generalise any of my minor discoveries.

    Sepia Hawk, thank you for the suggestion about the pricing site.
     
  7. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    It's too bad PE hasn't participated in your fixer thread. He either designed or helped design TF-5.
     
  8. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    I was thinking of PE, but he may be in a rather difficult situation, if he has, indeed, designed TF-5. He might want to keep his discoveries to himself, so as not to jeopardise the commercial success of TF-5, even if it seems, from his numerous, knowledgeable, and always very helpful posts, that he genuinely likes to share his wisdom. I just hope that this knowledge is not lost, for the future. It amazes me how much we used to know that we no longer do. When I met Neil Armstrong a few years ago, he remarked that he was sorry that we have already lost the knowledge, and the skill, how to get to the moon, even though this has been achieved numerous times a few decades ago. I realise that photochemistry is not in the same rank of importance, or difficulty, but it is a pity to lose valuable knowledge nonetheless.
     
  9. Mr Bill

    Mr Bill Member

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    I guess it depends on when one got interested. B&W research may have largely ended a long time ago, but color went on much longer.

    The C-41 process was developed about the mid-1970s, I think. It's fixer was near-neutral pH, running about 6.5. When the RA-4 process came out, 6-hour mini-labs were close behind, followed in a year or two by 1-hour systems. Somewhere around 1980 effluent regulations in the US meant that finishers had to get good control over things. Kodak supplied a good deal of published research information on process and treatment methods, which was then used by specialist companies who built equipment such as ion-exchange systems used in developer regeneration and silver recovery from wash water. And in fact, Kodak had it's own Environmental Services group, which also worked with the photofinishing industry on these things.

    I think the main thing, from the hobbyist perspective, is that no significant books on these things (as far as I know) were published after Haist. And there is probably not much further market for such books.

    ps; in the other thread, I suggested a replenished fixer, which would really be the only sensible way to handle things commercially, where effluents are regulated.
     
  10. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    Fair points. I didn't consider color.
     
  11. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    Mr Bill, I am thankful for you pointing out the fixer replenishment aspects. My research, so far, however, shows that unless one replaces a considerable volume of the used fixer, replenishment only works in conjunction with a de-silvering process in place, such as can be done in automated processors. If you are, however, of the opposite opinion, that is you have experience of replenishers which can be added without de-silvering the fixer, or without having to remove a significant portion of it, I would like to learn more. Perhaps it would be better to post back on those two threads, or maybe start a new one, so as to make others aware of our discussion, but I am eager to learn no matter how you would like to share your experience and knowledge. Many thanks, either way.
     
  12. Mr Bill

    Mr Bill Member

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    Well, let me see if I can work out a simplified explanation of a replenishment system. It may not be as straightforward as you would probably hope, but I'll see if I can make something brief and understandable. (Brief might be a couple of pages.)

    I'll post here where it'll be (or if I decide to give up on it).
     
  13. Mr Bill

    Mr Bill Member

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