WTB stainless steel developing reel for 116/616/70mm film

Discussion in '[Classifieds] Want to Buy' started by Denverdad, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Denverdad

    Denverdad Subscriber

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Superior, Co
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I am looking for a stainless steel developing reel for 116/616 roll film. This is for my hobby of developing found film rolls, which includes that size. The ones I have seen offered for sale have been a lot more than I want to spend. Does anyone have one that they would be willing to part with at a reasonable price? BTW, I did try the plastic route at first, but I was quickly reminded of how much more I prefer the stainless steel. So the quest continues.

    Thanks!

    Jeff
     
  2. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I have two 116/616 developing tanks, I might be convinced to part with one. PM me with an offer. You also mentioned 70mm, those are often $100 and up, and hold 15 (5 meters) feet of film, so be sure which one you need, the one I'm offering is the one for 116 or 616 length (same length) film.
     
  3. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Denverdad, I just noticed on Xbay old plastic tank & reel adjustable to 116 format film. I have 70mm reel with 100" capacity but for 116 format films I was thinking about using this smaller tank or making my own from Paterson reel. What is your problem with "plastic"? I personally prefer Paterson over stainless steel any time.
     
  4. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Be careful, the reason I have 3 116 tank is I had the same idea, except none that I've found so far will for properly in the Paterson tank :sad: however that green one I haven't tried yet... Try that one perhaps? The FR one won't fit I have it.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. CollinB

    CollinB Subscriber

    Messages:
    661
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I'm there, too. Got this old roll of 116 sitting on the shelf from an old salvage unit. I can't imaging buying a reel for one-time use. Perhaps I will tray develop it one day.
     
  6. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Send it to me with instructions :smile: Rodinal or HC-110 are your options...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
  8. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Yes that's the one I have, I am trying to say that, these tanks can not be inverted and only use the twirl/twist stick method to agitate. They are not liquid tight and if you swirl heavily they will spill, and using fixer is stronger smelling because the container is not sealed so the odor comes out easily.

    If you are OK with this, then it is a fine working tank and will probably be fine for your needs. For me it wasn't good enough.

    I have never seen a Paterson plastic "spiral" that takes 116, if you find a bunch ever and don't need them all I will take one and get rid of all these other tanks. Lol


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Hi Stone,
    it's DYS project to make Paterson reel to take 116 format. When I figure out how to do it will send you info. Thank you for info on FR tanks!
     
  10. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Ahh! Ok :smile:


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Hi Stone, I figured out the hardest part. Paterson core diameter is 25.5mm, wider centre hole on paterson reel is 32.5mm. Difference is 7mm. In my "project box" I just found 3.5mm thick copper wire. Wound it around centre core and it fits perfectly with wider centre hole of the reel and centre core. Now It looks like I have to glue top part to the centre core with crazy glue with 70mm film in the reel, to keep right distance. And even Paterson "loading" move is still OK. Only drawback is that I will have one Paterson dedicated reel and centre core just for 116 format.
     
  12. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Sounds like a plan, you can also just take 1 reel, then take HALF of the second reel, turn it around and stack them, for some reason the distance this creates is exactly 70mm which is just a coincidence, it works I've tried it, but when I learned this trick I had already owned a 116 tank so I've never used it all the way through so not sure now much agitation it can take. Good luck!


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Denverdad

    Denverdad Subscriber

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Superior, Co
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It would seem my request has stirred a bit of discussion. That's good! :smile:

    Just to clarify, the type reel I am after is the one for the standard 116/616 film length, not the wider one with the longer spiral. There is still a small question of whether I need not just the reel, but a tank too. Does the standard stainless steel 120 tank work for these? I assumed so, and actually just made a quick measurement to insure my tanks can accommodate the extra height of the taller reel (it would seem they can). Of course I am assuming the reel diameter is basically the same on these as 120, 127, and 35mm sizes, but maybe I should find that out for sure.

    It is really hard to get a reference point on the price here. I saw the one on eBay a while back with the BIN price of $75. I think that there was also a long-roll type 70mm reel and tank that went for $41 (again, not what I want but maybe useful for comparison). This seems pretty high given that good used 120 reels sometimes go for as little as a few bucks these days. But I suppose the relative scarcity of the 116 size reels comes into play here. In any event, Stone I am sending you a PM with an offer. Hopefully it won't be too insulting!

    My history with this may be instructive for the others who are looking. Originally, I purchased an old-style Paterson Universal tank that comes with a plastic reel expandable to 116 size. The tank itself is a real beauty, made of bakelite I think. But I can vouch for what was said earlier about these, that they cannot be inverted (they will leak), and are designed for the twirl stick agitation approach instead. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I am just used to inversion. The second thing I discovered is that this one takes quite a long time to empty through it's little spout - significantly longer than even my stainless steel tanks. So something to think about. Yet another issue is the fact that the plastic reel is wider than my stainless steel ones. This wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, but I have become quite fond of drying my rolls with a Senrac Rapid Roll Film Dryer, and it only accepts stainless steel reels. I eventually got the idea of fabricating an extension tube for the Senrac so that if I ever HAD to, I could also dry plastic reels; but the other issues with the old tank were enough for me to seek a different solution.

    My second effort was to purchase a more modern Paterson tank system, and then modify the reels to accommodate the taller film. For what it's worth, I DID play around with the idea that you can stack the reel halves in a certain way and get the correct spacing without having to do any modification of the reels. And, yes, that does work! But it didn't seem especially secure to me when assembled that way. In the end, I decided to permanently bond two reel halves together, and thus turn them into a single dedicated 116 reel. This basically worked as it was supposed to - it fits the film size correctly, the reel still ratchets and all, and it should be usable for any one who normally likes plastic reels. But I had problems with using it. Granted, part of that is just me and my relative inexperience with plastic (being a stainless steel fan). But some of it was the extra width of the 116 film (compared to 120) which I think makes it a little harder to work with. Most importantly though, the characteristics of the found film I am usually working with seems to make life more difficult too. These old rolls tend to be more brittle, and also tend to have quite a bit if curl, or "set" from having been on a spool for so long. It just seemed like a real pain to get the old film to load properly, making it's way over the bearings, and smoothly around the spiral without incident. So that's where I am with this - looking for a stainless steel reel. If I ever obtain one, I think I may just give away the modified plastic reel I built (for the cost of shipping), if anyone wants it.

    Jeff
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Did they even make a SS reel for 116? I've never seen one...

    I'm shocked you say $46 for 70mm tank and spiral, I expect to pay over $300 for one ... So far no one is bidding against me, I really hope no one does, but I expect the price to go crazy high if someone bids against me :/ *crossed fingers*

    Anyway yea I agree the plastic spinning ones are often not invertible... However I did find one that is at least self loading... The ansco one...

    [​IMG]
    The FR I have isn't very good, it's VERY hard to load and I don't recommend it...

    [​IMG]

    Lastly. I recently picked up an unknown, it was sort of one of those fortuitous situations where the seller had no clue but I suspected it was more adjustable than the listed sizes...

    It doesn't do 116, but it does do APX/110 !!!! And IS invertible...[​IMG][​IMG]
    Never heard of the brand... "Universal Kustom Photographic" yes with a K...
    I know that last one is OT but maybe they made a 116 version? It's "semi" self loading, basically you use your fingers like a ball bearing, it rotates so you can shimmy the film in... Can't wait to actually use it but I don't own a 110 camera and all APX is C-41... But it was cheap and an opportunity that doesn't come along often. I digress a lot :sad:

    I think you have to stick with the plastic for now and just keep an eye out for a 116 SS spiral...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Hi Jeff,
    thank you for starting a discussion! You nailed problem with old and stubborn, curly & dry film rolls. That is reason why I would like to do "firmer set up"/glued with Paterson reel. Did you cut corners of the film before loading? Just a bit to take off that 90 degrees, for easier loading. I always do it with all 35mm and 120/127 films? On other hand, 70mm film I'm currently using is very soft for handling, way softer than regular 120 and still, I do not have any problem loading it in SS reel.
    I will still check what kind of vintage 116 processing tank I can find here, locally in Vancouver.
    Stone, Thank you for details about FR and Ansco tanks. I will not worry too much about lack of modern features on old tanks and lack of liquid tightness. I do not process 70mm every day and I'm fine with ghetto method of processing film on the reel in dark in open deep dish. Hey, It's poor man dip and dunk processor!
    I always have ruler with me when I go to Camera swap meetings. I'm sure they made 116 SS reels. We just need to look around more! Film was manufactured until recently, well, until 20-30 years ago.
    Last week I went to the store where I bought my 70mm long reel and they didn't have any more left but they had 2 brand new, still in the box Nikor 3.5" x100' reels. Never heard of 3.5" film? 5" film, yes.
     
  17. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Hi Guys, I just checked original Instruction that came with Nikor tank. Yes, they made 116 format SS reels!!! And 118 and 122 formats too! Did anybody make some "serious" 116 format camera, beside Kodak folders??
    Nikor002.jpg
     
  18. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I've never even seen a 118 or 122 film size camera before... Is this one of those formats that became sheet film? I know some larger roll film was converted to sheet film because the convenience of roll film storage was outweighed by film that was too curly but they liked the size and so started making sheets for the same size. Is this the case?

    I don't think they had "serious" cameras in the terms you are thinking... A Kodak folder WAS serious back then, some of them. The Autographic Folder I have for 120 and 116 is super fancy with lots of "features" like B and T and I that's 3 options! I think the instant (I) was the fanciest of the features :smile: and an f stop range from f/7.5 to f/45!!! Wow! :smile:

    The fancier of the two also has 1/25 and 1/100 as a shutter speed option. This was a later model.

    How we view cameras today is different than people would from back then. Owning a Kodak when they first came out was like buying a professional model Canon or Nikon for ($3,000) today's money. A lot to spend I think. It was certainly a luxury item. People weren't so entitled to have EVERYTHING as we are today because it wasn't a consumer economy until the 1950's.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Nice explanation Stone! Thank you!
    Then I already have top of the line 116 camera! I'm richer than I thought!
    German made FD with Rodenstock lens and fancy Compur shutter.
    _DSC1293.jpg
     
  20. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Wow that's MUCH nicer than mine :smile: many more options and better glass, however I suspect this is from the 1930-1950's? Mine is from 1910's a lot of advancement happened with later lens designs...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Thank you Stone!
    This camera must be made before or during IIWW.
    We didn't have many amateur West German cameras imported in the Yugoslavia after 1945.
    For official use we had lots of Leicas, Rolleiflex's, Linhofs and Arri cameras, most likely received as war reparations from Germany.
    You can see some of the pictures taken with this camera on 70mm film on my Flickr.
    Goran
     
  22. Denverdad

    Denverdad Subscriber

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Superior, Co
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    So I am still in the market for the 116 STAINLESS STEEL reel! :smile:
    Here is a link to the completed eBay ad I mentioned above, which shows what they look like. If you didn't know any different, you might think it is just a normal 120 reel - the same spiral and everything; just a bit taller than the 120 reel.

    Some interesting discussions here about available reel sizes. I should mention that I recently expanded into 127 format for my found film developing habit, and picked up a stainless reel for that format too. Here is an example of one up on the 'Bay right now. Kinda like you would think actually - about half way between a 35mm and a 120 reel. I can't wait to try mine out!

    As for 11/616 cameras, I would have to say that the most advanced one I can think of off hand would probably be the Kodak Monitor Six-16's which; especially the ones with the top of the line Anastigmat Special lens. These are the "big brothers" of the more common Monitor Six-20 cameras; and are from the 1940's, primarily.


    Jeff
     
  23. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Hi Jeff,
    It was serious price for SS 116 reel! Actually, crazy one!
    Reels for 127 are not beg deal. Any paterson reel can be adjusted to it in the second.
    I started this journey in 70mm film because I wanted to make 127 films so my son can use his Kodak Brownie collection.
    And then he got 17 rolls of Verichrome 127 expired in mid '70, still good!
    While buying some 828 film for him I found few 116 rolls to, for myself.
    Thank you for mentioning Kodak Monitor. Will look for them around here.
     
  24. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    This is a nice story :smile:

    PS do you mean 70mm can be cut in half and make 127?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. gorbas

    gorbas Subscriber

    Messages:
    474
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    Stone, Well done!!Congratulation on your new ultra expensive processing 70mm tank! I had serious thoughts that I'm crazy sometimes, but you won this time!!! :smile:))))
    Yes, you are actually cutting 46mm wide centre part of the film, so both perforations are off. If you have 70mm unperforated film, you can make 120 or 220 format too. With perforated 70mm you are short 1mm or you are OK if you don't mind having some perforations on the edges of your picture.
     
  26. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,160
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Yea there's a guy here I have been sending my film to who slits it for free as long as I send him extra backing paper/spools in 120.

    The new ilford 70mm run will be all non-perf....

    Thanks, yea it's a crazy price, but I haven't seen one go for less than $250, so... Heck the spiral alone is $100 so I don't feel TOO bad, I can sell my spiral on eBay and maybe the home made tank as well, haha who knows maybe the next person will be crazy too and buy my hand made tank for a lot :wink:


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk