Xtol discontinued?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Rolfe Tessem, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Rolfe Tessem

    Rolfe Tessem Subscriber

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    Xtol appears to be out of stock everywhere, and B&H is listing it as "discontinued."

    I queried B&H by email and got a reply that, "Our buyer says he doesn’t expect to see Kodak brand Xtol ever again." Now, whether this means that there will be Champion brand Xtol or something else, that is completely unclear. Kodak sold off their photochemistry division to Champion some years ago, so the Kodak labeled Xtol hasn't actually been made by Kodak for quite some time. You would think that would also mean it would be unaffected by the bankruptcy.

    Unknown to me (until today) was the fact that Freestyle distributes an Xtol clone under the LegacyPro brand (formerly Kentmere I believe).

    I just ordered 5 packages to be sure I'm covered in the short term at least.
     
  2. albada

    albada Subscriber

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    Freestyle's website says that a new delivery is expected around Sept 14 (in two days). Here's the link:
    http://freestylephoto.biz/8751752-Kodak-XTOL-Powder-Film-Developer-to-Make-5-Liter

    Mark Overton

     
  3. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    Whew... Man it would suck if xtol was gone. It's one of my main developers.
     
  4. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    I have heard that Ilford has an xtol equivalent. Might be microdol or perceptol.
     
  5. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    Microphen is what I'm thinking about for an Xtol equivalent.
     
  6. dnjl

    dnjl Member

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    Of course it's discontinued! I started using it, that's why!

    Sometimes, the laws of causality make me wonder :errm:
     
  7. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    There's already a thread on this under Product Availability:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/109884-b-h-no-longer-carrying-xtol.html

    Ilford DD-X is often suggested as an alternative but is probably more like T-Max developer than Xtol. There are other developers on the market that claim to be very similar, see the above thread. MSDSs may look different but that doesn't necessarily mean they will (or won't) work very differently. The Xtol formula, at least the approximate formula, is hardly a secret, see the bottom of this page:

    http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/xtol/

    For a scratch mixed developer said to produce negatives indistinguishable from Xtol:

    http://www.jackspcs.com/mytol.htm
     
  8. julhu

    julhu Member

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    I believe Fomadon Excel is similar to Xtol. This is at least what one can read on the internet...
     
  9. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Fomadon Excel is listed as an ascorbic acid developer so it is probably at least similar (and more likely closer than just similar) but as far as I see from a couple of sources checked is only available in 1 liter packs for $6. Not that outrageous but way more than people have been paying per liter for the Kodak 5L packs.
     
  10. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Member

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    there are several recipes on the net to make your own.
     
  11. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    Freestyle lists Xtol to make 5Ltr.

    Currently Out of Stock
    Approximate delivery date from vendor: Sep 14, 2012


    No mention of being discontinued.

    I suspect they had a run on their stock after it had been reported Kodak is going out of business.

    As Ralph say's, there are a number of formulas available to brew your own. In the past I've tried Paul Lewis's "Mytol" as found in Jacks Specs. I don't know how closely it compares to Xtol and it doesn't look much like Mark Overtons' (Albada/APUG) work with his version. But it did make negatives.
     
  12. Rolfe Tessem

    Rolfe Tessem Subscriber

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    It is rare that every supplier in the country has no stock at all, which appears to be the current situation. This does lend some credence to the possibility that Xtol from Kodak is done.

    Henry Posner, who speaks for B&H, replied to me in an email that, "Our buyer says he doesn’t expect to see Kodak brand Xtol ever again."

    To me, that is a pretty strong statement coming from B&H, but the qualifier of the "Kodak brand" may lead some to read between the lines.

    All I care is that this developer is available from somebody -- I do understand that it is not that difficult to prepare from scratch.
     
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  14. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Subscriber

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    Interesting that D-76 is still available. Could just be massive amounts of stock. I'd expect D-76 and all Kodak chems to go. Good thing there's Ilford and ID-11.
     
  15. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    I'd hate to lose T-Max RS but I suppose I can move to DD-X with no problem.
     
  16. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    For what it's worth, the Legacy Pro ECO PRO Ascorbic Acid developer behaves exactly like Xtol. I've been switching back between it and regular Kodak Xtol, using it both replenished and as diluted stock, and I get identical results in my prints.
    This is good to know in case you don't like to mix your own.
     
  17. Alessandro Serrao

    Alessandro Serrao Member

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    Unfortunately I think it's discontinued.
    I live in Italy. Today I've called the local pro shop to ask for some X-tol and they said that Kodak discontinued it.
    If the same news popped out on the other part of the world I think we must face the music.
     
  18. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    Ok this kinda sucks. Time to stock up a bit.

    Edit: Just bought 6 packs from calumet online through their amazon store which saves like $5 on shipping. Plus calumet customer service is hands down excellent if anything goes wrong.

    Adorama still has it in stock as well. but their shipping rates are more expensive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2012
  19. Felinik

    Felinik Member

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    Maybe someone has connections inside Kodak and could dig up some facts here?
     
  20. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    See Thomas's post above. Who cares? If you like Xtol just get the Eco Pro stuff and be happy. The MSDSs may be different but if the results are the same it really doesn't matter.
     
  21. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    It's also cheaper by a few dollars. But if the real deal is still able to be bought why not? I'll get the freestyle version when I place my next order and compare it myself as well. It's good to know there is an alternative out there.

    I wonder if this will go the way of rodinal as well.
     
  22. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Yeah, I understand that. I buy the Kodak D76 because it's only very slightly more expensive. But I buy Legacy Pro brown toner because the Kodak is only sold in gallon sizes for something like $300 and hard to find at that (though I think others are similar.) I was buying the Kodak rapid fix, but changed to Legacy Pro for a related reason - the Kodak is only available in 1 gallon, which isn't large enough, and 25 gallons which is way too much. The Legacy Pro I can get in a good-for-me 5 gallon size, which is much cheaper than 5x1 gallon even including shipping, but isn't a "lifetime supply guaranteed to go bad before I'd use it" 25 gallon size.

    I've suspected that some of the Legacy Pro stuff might be made by Champion anyway. I hope not, simply because if Kodak goes away or Champion stops making their stuff the LP might go away too. Still, there are alternatives for most things.
     
  23. Felinik

    Felinik Member

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    I was simply thinking about the amount of wasted time on speculations, could all be ended with one phone call by the right person.
     
  24. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    I was actually replying to the post above yours about stocking up, but didn't quote it.
     
  25. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    Microphen is not an equivalent to XTOL. It is quite different. Ilford doesn't currently have a real "equivalent" to XTOL. But there are apparently some commercially available clones out there, or you can more or less mix your own XTOL if it comes to that.

    I'd also caution just because a developer contains or is based on ascorbic acid does not mean it is anything like XTOL in its working properties. Actually, it is probably more reasonable in any case to describe XTOL as a Phenidone (Dimezone) based developer.

    It would be sad if XTOL is indeed going away. It is a fairly unique developer in its working properties.