Yellow and Green filter together...

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Equipment' started by marciofs, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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    I usually use yellow filter to shoot nature, but I am wondering what effects it may have on green, brown and even on the sky if I use both Yellow and Green filter.

    Have any body tried?
     
  2. cowanw

    cowanw Member

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    To the extent that yellow blocks green and green blocks yellow and they both block blue, you will have very long exposures. Would be my guess.
     
  3. darkosaric

    darkosaric Subscriber

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    We are speaking about one filter? I have yellow-green filter, some strange production, probably ex USSR, so no need for 2 filters.
     
  4. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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  5. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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  6. bernard_L

    bernard_L Member

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    1) Yellow is minus-blue, so lets green and red through.
    2) Normal, "light" green blocks red partially (unlike "process" or "color sep" green). And "blocks yellow" does not mean much since yellow is not a primary (additive color), being yellow=red+green

    Yellow-green was common ~50 years ago as an all-around filter: mild cloud enhancement, lightens foliage for a pleasant effect.
     
  7. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    Hi there,

    Firstly, you need to be aware that most filters employed in photography are not 'pure'. By this I mean that a red filter generally lets some light from the rest of the spectrum through (there are filters that will only let their respective primary colours - red, blue and green - through but these are the exception to the norm).

    Generally speaking photographic filters for black & white work as follows:

    Red: Mainly lightens red and renders yellow and orange as a lighter grey plus renders green and blues as a darker tone

    Blue: Mainly lightens blue and renders purple as a lighter grey plus renders green, yellow, orange and red as a darker tone

    Green: Mainly lightens green and light yellows and renders bright green and orange as a lighter grey plus renders purple, orange and red as a darker tone

    Yellow: Mainly lightens yellow and renders bright green and orange as a lighter grey plus renders red and darker blues as a darker tone

    Combining yellow and green will require more exposure correction and will render yellow, orange and lighter greens as lighter tones and will darken everything else. The big problem with this combination is being able to accurately interpret both the scene and how the combined filters will affect the tonality. In addition, there will be the need to adequately compensate your exposure.

    The filter that I most used when doing landscape photography was a Wratten #12 (Minus Blue) filter. This filter looks yellow but is actually a special formulation for B&W that markedly lowers the tonal value of blues without affecting the other colours. It produces results similar to a red filter but far more subtle, removes haze, takes the blue out of deep shadows thereby creating more visual contrast and, all of this, with only a loss of one stop. The Minus Blue filter proved invaluable in getting good representation of landscape tonality in the UK, Brazil, Chile and Germany.

    I highly recommend you trying one out.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  8. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Since a green filter also passes yellow light there is no advantage to using both. Use one or the other depending on the effect you wish to achieve.
     
  9. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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  10. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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    Thank you very much... I will look for this filter for sure. :smile:
     
  11. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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  12. cowanw

    cowanw Member

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    A lot of old texts have the variety of effects in black and white, I am looking at Feiningers' now.
    I fully agree that the filters are not perfect in their function, but I think we are confusing the additive and subtractive systems.
    Bernard-l mentions yellow is not a primary colour but with regards to filtration of wavelengths of light that is not the point.
    And a yellow filter plus a green filter is not the same as a yellow/green filter.
    A filter lets through the wavelengths of light that it looks like and as a result of printing that lightened tone back down, the other tones will be slightly darker to a variety of degrees. There is imperfect spill, but
    a Yellow filter prints foliage lighter to the extent that there is reflective yellow in the leaves, as can be seen in the fall. Red can do the same
    As a more blunt example, a red filter and a blue filter combined do not equal a magenta filter.
    Least ways, that is the way Feininger's examples look like.
    Regards
     
  13. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

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    An aside since I know you like pinhole cameras too. I use green + orange filters stacked together for preflashing VC paper for paper negatives. The point is to block the blue, and I think of the orange filter almost like a ND to make the green exposure longer. The combination together makes the preflash exposure more than 10 seconds so I can control it.
     
  14. Kevin Kehler

    Kevin Kehler Member

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    Is this the same as a #12 Deep Yellow filter?

    I have a yellow-green filter that I like using in shots where I don't want to suppress the foliage but want a darker sky. I don't generally like stacking filters as it tends to lead to unpredictable results.
     
  15. cowanw

    cowanw Member

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  16. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council

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    One additional area of concern is Filter Factoring, how much additional exposure to use. It is my understanding that when stacking filters you do not combine the factors, a 1.5X and a 2X do not make a 3.5X. Use only the single largest Factor for the stack. I don't think the order is important.

    Just thinking ahead.
     
  17. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    It should depend on how much the curves overlap, I think. If you had two filters with the exact same passband but different filter factors, you'd invert the filter factors, multiply, and invert again, so the 1.5x and 2x would come to a 3x. Of course if they didn't overlap at all, the filter factor would be infinity because no light would pass; and somewhere in between are most of the realistic situations.

    To get a real answer for a particular pair of filters you need to consider their full response curves, but I'm pretty sure that using only the highest filter factor for the stack will always cause underexposure to some degree. Do I miss something?

    -NT
     
  18. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council

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    Nathan,
    You may be right. I am basing my understanding from what I remember reading in "The Negative" a few years ago.
     
  19. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    Hmm, well, I'm gonna guess that if my off-the-cuff analysis conflicts with Ansel Adams, people should probably listen to him!

    -NT
     
  20. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    There are two sets of primary colors; an additive set and a subtractive set. The additive set is red, green and blue and the subtractive set is yellow magenta and cyan. Anyone who wishes to use colored filters should become familiar with the color wheel. This knowledge makes things much simpler.
     
  21. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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  22. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    It always amuses me that, even with photographers who are thoroughly versed in the Zone System and have carefully tested to determine their personal Exposure Index, people blindly apply a filter factor despite having everything they need to determine the correct exposure compensation. What I mean is that a manufacturer will provide a filter factor based on an average effect of an average filter on an average scene with lighting that corresponds to a few hours before and after Noon.

    To ascertain the correct exposure compensation for the filter that you have chosen to use for the scene before you at the time of day that you want to make your photograph is actually very simple:

    Hold the filter in one hand and with the other hand point an averaging meter (such as a Weston) at the scene that you wish to photograph and note where the needle is on the scale (or exposure if using a meter such as a Sekonic that does not use a scale). Keep the meter pointed at the scene and then place the filter in front of the selenium cell/sensor and note the effect (i.e how far the needle goes down / how much the exposure is effected). You now know that for this particular scene at this time of day with this particular filter how much exposure compensation you will require. You can then proceed to meter the scene how you normally would and then apply the filter correction that you have determined. Using this method you will often find that a dark red filter may require anything between 2 to 4 stops of correction - an important variation if shadow detail is important to you.

    PLEASE NOTE: The above method does not work with CDS meters as they have a very skewed spectral sensitivity.

    Best,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  23. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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    May be 'The Negative' is the one to blame. ;-)