Zeiss Ikon Nettar 517/16 Red Window in use

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Mustafa Umut Sarac, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    If I am remembering correct from my mind archive, some members reported to not use red window and need of black tape it when using it with modern films. I am remembering that I was using Kiev 88 magazine without problem even without red window and velvia to isopan.
    You can even touch the film backing with Kiev magazines.

    I did not use above camera with film but my first observation was the film advancing knob is turning to infinity without care of advancing per 6 centimeters.

    Now can I use red window without problem with Portra to Tri X ?

    I need to add there is a sliding metal window to close the red window also.

    Thank you,
    Umut
     
  2. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    Always a good idea to keep the slider closed as much as practical. Open it to advance and then close it.

    I have seen no fog due to red window when I shoot Tri X in an Ikonta. (My fog comes from the front, through the bellows).

    I believe a small film manufacture company may have difficulty sourcing backing paper that is opaque to visible light. If in doubt of the manufacturer, keep the light subdued when window is open.
     
  3. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    I have experienced smearing with 400 ASA film (both color and B&W) in a red window camera when used in bright sunlight, even when slider is opened just long enough to wind film to the nxt exposure. I have used Ilford and Kodak B&W film, as well as Kodak E-6 and C-41 film. I can't recall exactly at the moment, but I seem to recall Ilford smearing more than Kodak... and all color film smearing more than I can accept.
     
  4. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Bill and Brian,

    That sounds not good. I think If there would be a problem with visible light , no Kiev 88 owners would not be able to use their cameras. I think problem is red light. But this is an guess. I think Bill is right about using that window with shadowing with rain coat.

    Now this thread is its own and I have to open a thread about advancing without seeing the backing .

    Umut
     
  5. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    I have had no difficulty using slow film... so the news isn't as bad as it seems!
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    My 6x17 camera has quite a large window to see the frame numbers and no red filter, that hasn't been a problem even when I've forgotten to close the slider and that was in the usually bright sunshimne of the Aegean cost in Turkey which is just about the maximum my light meters can read :D

    That's with HP5/Tmax & Delta 400 as well as slower films including Fomapan 200. No problems with my old Nettar either.

    Ian
     
  7. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    Some red window problems may relate to other light paths between the window and the emulsion -- reflections behind the pressure plate or the like. A while back I tested my Perkeo II with full afternoon sun from different angles, 15 minutes on each test with the window slider open and could not see any visible effect with 400 film (TMax 400). So I don't worry too much about it. But I readily admit there could be differences between cameras as well as backing paper, so it is probably best practice to avoid unnecessary exposure.
     
  8. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Brian, Ian and Dave.

    Now I am more confident about that red window.

    Umut
     
  9. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    I've never had any problem at all with the red window on a Nettar, and I shoot in some very bright conditions routinely. Fast film, slow film, color, b&w, various brands, doesn't seem to matter. I wouldn't try it with 220 though. :smile:

    Of course with 6x6, there's the advantage that the red window is in the middle rather than at an edge, so it would take a pretty strange path to result in a light leak around the backing paper. I suppose in theory you could leave the window open for a long time and get print-through, but it's never been a problem for me.

    Actually, apart from damaged bellows (bellowses? bellowsen?), the only leaks I've ever had in folders have been from the body "seam" rather than the back. Some of the older 6x9 models from other manufacturers don't close very solidly, but Zeiss certainly never had a problem with that!

    -NT
     
  10. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Nathan,

    I bought my camera from Mike,an Sheffield resident and new APUGer. He has 5 pictures with that camera at gallery and some of them are excellent. I looked to the interior of the camera , bellows, shutter, diaphgram, knobs and the door attached film squeezing plate are at excellent condition and there were even no fingerprints. I pressed to the door plate and it fits perfectly to the place and there are no gap to carry the light train to the corners.

    Umut
     
  11. JeRuFo

    JeRuFo Member

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    When I got my Moskva 5 someone mentioned that I should keep the window shielded as much as possible with faster film, even with the metal slide closed. I made a not very reliable lip with gaffer tape and tried to cover up the camera when not in use. But frankly I've never seen any effect of it.
    That being a Moskva it is plausible that a Zeiss Ikon would be even more reliable in that respect.
     
  12. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    Since I'm developing a roll right now, I thought I'd check...

    The densitometer reads around 6.0 on the paper backing from a roll of 120 Panatomic-X.

    Folded in half, two layers still reads 6.0 so I assume I have reached the limit of the device.
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    One comment I'd make is that the backing paper and printed numbering used for Ilford 120 films is very difficult to read through the red filter of my Ikonta 531. Unfortunately the Novar lens on the camera is soft it has aslight haze and is very low contrast so unusable, some of the new optical glasses used by Zeiss and Leitz in the 1930's don't age well. Luckily I picked up a new (unused) post WWII coated Novar so will switch the cells over next time I'm in Turkey.

    I've been restoring 3 pre-WWII Rollex and a Rada 6x9 backs and like all the cameras & backs with the viewing window it's important to ensure that the light seal between the back and the pressure plate is intact, older models used velvet newr foam.

    As Bill's just noted the film backing paper itself is light-tight it's where the film is spooling on/off the roll where you are likely to get a problem.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2012