Zeiss Ikon Netter 6x4.5 - "nice if stopped down" ?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by IloveTLRs, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Hi.

    I'm debating on getting a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 6x4.5. I've looked around the internet and a bunch of people have said it's a nice camera if stopped down. My question is, what happens if it's opened up? Is it soft? Is there swirly bokeh? Vignetting?

    I like to use all f-stops on my cameras (also I don't print, I dev then scan) so I'd like some advice from folks with experience. Thanks :smile:
     
  2. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It's soft, with very soft corners. No swirleys either - just mush.
     
  3. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Hmmm, doesn't sound too bad. Pretty mush or cheap, dark lens mush?

    And I hate swirlies ... are they confined to old Japanese lenses or it just my bad experience?
     
  4. k_jupiter

    k_jupiter Member

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    Somewhat soft in the corners, more like the problem tends to be that at open apertures, what you are foguessing at won't be in focus. Maybe it's just me, but I usually have an idea of what I would like to have in focus and that doesn't quite happen at 5.6.

    OTOH.. at f11 on down, my 6x6 Nettars are quite nice, I can usually guestimate distances so at that apertures, it looks nice, while I can still get a bit of fall off at the horizon.

    BTW, what model Nettar is 6x4.5? I have only been aware of 6x6 and 6x9.


    tim in san jose
     
  5. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Which is virtually identical to an Ikonta 521, except the Ikonta film wind is on the top next to the shutter release.

    Ian
     
  7. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Nettars come with either Tessars or Novars. The latter are triplets made by Rodenstock or Hensoldt and should not be discounted. Either of these lenses needs to be stopped down probably 2 stops, but most of the fuzzy problem comes from front standards that are now a bit out of focus. I have had to recheck the focus on almost every old folder I own
    Mark
     
  8. JPD

    JPD Member

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    ...or Nettar Anastigmat.

    It shouldn't be difficult to find a pre-war Nettar or Ikonta with Tessar for $60 or less.
     
  9. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Yep, the one I'm looking at has that lens.
     
  10. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    The Tessars usually had better shutters
    Mark
     
  11. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    The Nettar Anastigmat was likely made by Hensoldt which Zeiss owned.
    I have two Super Ikonta 111s with Novars and I cannot find them inferior to the Tessars-to my surprise
    Mark
     
  12. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Well, I picked up the camera. It's nice, but the shutter speeds are off. T, B, 1/1, 1/2 and 1/25 work but all the others sound/look all the same. Would it be easy to get in there and fix it?
     
  13. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    I have a 6x6 Nettar with the Novar f6.8 lens. It is a great camera, pocketable and capable of producing prints that put ordinary 35mm shots to shame. It also has a 'cute' non-threatening look to it so people don't pay much attention to it -- unless they are fellow photographers.

    5x7 prints of shots made wide-open are perfectly acceptable, I wouldn't go looking at the prints with a 20x loupe though. At f11-16 it is good enough for most any purposes, but don't expect to compete with a Hassy. Lens to lens variation may be significant, but this is just a WAG. They also made the camera with an f4.5 Novar, I don't know how well this performs wide open. A good triplet is capable of excellent performance, the problem is that a good 4-element Tessar is cheaper to make than a good triplet because triplet tolerances are very tight for optimum performance. Most triplets are made for low cost - so getting a good one can have an element of luck to it.

    I would try to get one with an up-market shutter. I find the base Vario with 25/75/200 speeds is a bit limiting.

    As already mentioned, it is a good idea to check focus alignment, as it is on any folding camera (and on _any_ used [even new] camera). Scotch magic tape stretched across the film gate makes a good focusing surface. Pick an infinity target. At wide open check the image center's sharpest point is with the lens focused at infinity, and that the corners are equally fuzzy. You can also use a closer object and use a tape measure to set the distance from the subject to the film plane. To check focus I place several screws head down on a table, in a line at a 45 degree angle to the camera, spaced an inch apart. I set the distance for the middle screw and take the picture wide open at the closest focusing distance. I then check the resulting photos and make sure middle screw is in focus and that the sharp focus range is roughly the same forward and back.
     
  14. bobewest

    bobewest Member

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    I have a 515 with a Novar lens which tended to be a bit soft
    until I adjusted the film pressure plate.
    Great little camera.
     
  15. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    It is not that hard to pull the shutter & lens. There are several articles on the web on DIY shutter repair. The less you take things apart the better, so start with removing the cover plates and give a good flush with Ronsonol - if that gets things going I would leave it at that.

    "Don't fix it if it isn't broken."
    "If you fix anything for long enough you will break it."
    - Murphy
     
  16. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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  17. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Springs weaken and loose their tension.

    Ian
     
  18. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    That's what I thought.

    Urgh, that means taking the thing to pieces.
     
  19. elekm

    elekm Member

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    In a shutter, springs rarely weaken. Perhaps they rust, get stretched or pushed beyond their range because of a heavy-handed user, but the springs themselves rarely weaken. Or so I was told by an expert in metals some time ago.

    Be judicious in your use of lighter fluid. If it gets on the lens, make sure that you clean the lens before reassembling the camera. You should do that anyway -- clean all of the lenses.

    Your camera has a very simple shutter -- maybe a Telma or a Klio. These generally are very easy to disassemble. Get some compressed air and first gently blow out any dust or debris that's in there before using lighter fluid.

    The best method is a mix of lighter fluid and powdered graphite. When the lighter fluid evaporates, there is some graphite left behind, which is a dry lubricant. Make sure that you blow out the assembly so it removes any excess graphite.

    The Novar, a triplet, is a decent performer. It was made by one of several third-party lens makers and rarely carries a serial number. The Nettar Anastigmat also is a triplet, but I haven't had enough experience with that lens to comment on its performance.

    A well-designed triplet can be a very credible lens. The Kodak Anastigmat on the Duo 620 is an excellent lens, as is the Zeiss Triotar and certain Agfa Apotars.
     
  20. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Well, using the above instructions I took off the lens, the shutter speed dial and cover. I mostly played with it and didn't disassemble it any further (for fear of not getting it back together again.)

    1/175 sounds okay, as does 1/100. 1/50 is off unless I position the speed dial slightly between it and 1/25. 1/25 is okay, as is 1/2, 1/1, B and T. 1/10 & 1/5 are way too fast; they feel like 1/100. I've put a test roll in and will see how it comes out.
     
  21. puderse

    puderse Member

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    I was astounded by my first roll of film. Bought at garage sale and did nothing to it!
     

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  22. Antje

    Antje Member

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    Wow. That's one ugly camera. :smile: Glad it found a good home at last!
     
  23. rusty71

    rusty71 Member

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    I have one with the Nettar lens. It can be surprisingly good for black and white or color. The camera is so small that it fits in your hip pocket. As mentioned it's no Planar, but much better than most 35mm results. The Klio shutter seems a bit limited at top speeds. Also be sure to check focus with magic tape and a test roll as mentioned. Use a tape measure to set focus. Some lenses are marked in meters and some in feet. Be sure to note which scale yours uses! Mine was set for meters and at first all was blurry. A quick check put the problem firmly with the operator.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/arcanefuture/sets/72157604731232482/