Kodak Files for Bankruptcy Protection 1/18/2012

[Aristophanes]

A great deal of Kodak's current value stems from the Creo acquisition in 2005 referenced from their group here:

http://graphics.kodak.com/default.htm

That group accounts for a steady 40-50% of all revenue.

The consumer printer division is the most contentious because:

1. Perez has that background and it looks like he is simply turning Kodak into HP Jr., which is unimaginative.

2. The personal and home printer market is not really growing.

3. Revenues have been modest, gaining lately.

The Film and Entertainment Group is the revenue loss problem for Kodak. That is why most of it appears to be for sale. Private companies may be able to shrink and adapt to new realities, but public companies in deep debt cannot.




I could of sworn I said 'leaving film to the side for a moment'......

I did a tour of a local professional photo finishing business last year. They showed us all their machines, including the Kodak LED optical printer, the smaller wet process machines and the Epson Inkjets that they use.

The owner of the business LOVED his Kodak LED machine (Pegasus....does that ring any bells with anyone). Well built, state of the art when he bought it (mid 90's from memory) and not much better available today. He loved the fact that he could have a Service contract with Kodak to fix the thing when it breaks.

Contrast that with the Epson Inkjet. From memory, he had installed a few since he bought his first one (this century at least). The thing was about 18 months old and pretty much ready for the scrap pile. He had told us that Epson simply didn't care. If it broke you had to pay big dollars to get it fixed. Epson were only ever interested in selling new printers and that was it. From memory, he even said "now If Kodak could sell me one of these....."

Now, I am a total outsider looking in and maybe the quintessential Monday morning expert, but considering the luke warm crap that Kodak have served up at a consumer level over the last 10ish years, would they not be better of forgetting this all together? Would they not be better off servicing at a commercial and totally professional level? This would then (the way I am thinking) still leave plenty of room for film, considering that there still seems to be plenty of love for it on movie sets.

Or am I totally bonkers?

[Ken Nadvornick]

I could of sworn I said 'leaving film to the side for a moment'......

You most certainly did...

;)

Ken

[DREW WILEY]

If they're going to survive they need to concentrate on what they do best, and not what everyone
and his pet hamster can also do. They need a define niche with a recognizable brand identification to it, even if its a smaller market than what they once enjoyed as an octopus corporation. Film and
color printing papers is one of these. Might be a shrinking market, but if they don't overload it with
a lot of redundant duplicate products, it's still pretty big. I've never seen one of their copiers. And
they past behavior with service contracts is the one thing which guarantees them no trust. But I've
never even seen a Kodak copier. Who would want to buy one on a service guarantee when there's
no guarantee they'll be around when you need them?

[Steve Smith]

If they're going to survive they need to concentrate on what they do best, and not what everyone and his pet hamster can also do.

The company I work for has a couple of phrases which describe this. If we can add some extra value to a product which other companies can't do, they say we have a 'right to win' the business and our sales people go out to get the business. If we get an enquiry for work which anyone else could do, they say we don't want to be a 'me too' company. There's no point trying to get work which everyone and his pet hamster can do as you will always be beaten down on price.


Steve.

[DREW WILEY]

Kodak is in no position to get into a bar fight right now with anyone. The long running price wars with
Fuji for everything didn't help either. When the salmon are running the bear needs to put on fat, because the winter will come sooner or later. They didn't. Instead, they thought the bar across the
street would be better, and they walked into an even big fight. And right now they're in the best
position in years because they finally have to make sink or swim decisions, and can't just bleed
successful department to pay for me-too ventures, or just wildly chop each category a certain percent and hope the books add up. Let's just hope it gets done right. Got nothin' to do with
"value added". It's about who you're going to be, and at last realizing you can be everything to
everyone.

[cmacd123]

. I've never seen one of their copiers. And
they past behavior with service contracts is the one thing which guarantees them no trust. But I've
never even seen a Kodak copier.

Kodak used to make a darn good copier. High speed, and using Kodak technology. And the Lads from Kodak came in like clockwork to keep it running, heck back in the 1980's they had the place where we had one put in a phone line for the copier so It could report in on how it was feeling.

Kodak technology, - rather than a drum like most copier the photo-conductor was a loop of "film" sprocket driven. the techs replaced it regularly so their was never a bad copy from a worn drum. since it was film they could exposed a whole page at once with a flash, and crank the film over to the transfer section. Canon had to wait until they had digital copiers to do the same expose the whole page trick.

Kodak sold the business back in the 1990's.

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak build the best copier in the world, and got many awards for it. Then they subletted the engine to a competitor along with the patents. The competitor gave EK just what they asked for and then went on to make a better machine from the patents. As a result, the competitor made better copiers and Kodak made their own old standard while the industry moved on! Then they closed the copier division. (oh, the head of that division lives just a few doors down from me! ;) )

Anyhow, another sign of EK strategy at work!

My office mate moved there and back again (he was short like a Hobbit - go figure that one) - long story including Yoda )

Anyhow, EK has a history of wrong decisions and I am working on an "expose" of these.

My comments here center on "What would you do if you were the CEO of EK"?

I would first establish a budget for film sales advertizing. Second, I would become a supporter of APUG and Photo Net for Analog. and finally, I would have a representative present on APUG and PN to interact with customers for Analog products and digital products.

How about all of you?

PE

[tomalophicon]

I'd shoot myself in the heart.

[spoolman]

PE: With that plan even I would invest in Kodak or whatever is going to be left.It is practical, makes sense business wise and probably none of the so-called experts that are now in charge would not recognize this as the best way to go even if it came up and bit them in the backside !!!!

Doug

[hoffy]

Kodak build the best copier in the world, and got many awards for it. Then they subletted the engine to a competitor along with the patents. The competitor gave EK just what they asked for and then went on to make a better machine from the patents. As a result, the competitor made better copiers and Kodak made their own old standard while the industry moved on! Then they closed the copier division. (oh, the head of that division lives just a few doors down from me! ;) )

Anyhow, another sign of EK strategy at work!

My office mate moved there and back again (he was short like a Hobbit - go figure that one) - long story including Yoda )

Anyhow, EK has a history of wrong decisions and I am working on an "expose" of these.

My comments here center on "What would you do if you were the CEO of EK"?

I would first establish a budget for film sales advertizing. Second, I would become a supporter of APUG and Photo Net for Analog. and finally, I would have a representative present on APUG and PN to interact with customers for Analog products and digital products.

How about all of you?

PE

Bingo! This is the reason why I asked the question Scott if he had been in contact with anyone from Kodak.

What have we actually heard? Absolutely nothing.

OK, from a corporate point of view, we probably are nothing more then a bunch of Anoraks and Film nerds, but in this shrinking market, I'm afraid that from a Film point of view, we are all that Kodak have.

We have seen comments from Ilford here in the past. We have seen comments from other suppliers from Eastern Europe, but I have never seen an official comment from Kodak or Fuji. Maybe they don't get social media?

[alanrockwood]

PE: With that plan even I would invest in Kodak or whatever is going to be left.It is practical, makes sense business wise and probably none of the so-called experts that are now in charge would not recognize this as the best way to go even if it came up and bit them in the backside !!!!

Doug

Just make sure you invest AFTER the company emerges from bankruptcy. If you buy shares before then you will be wiped out.

(I realize I have said this before, but it bears repeating.)

[michaelbsc]

I'd shoot myself in the heart.

Probably the smartest move. But we already know that story.

[michaelbsc]

Bingo! This is the reason why I asked the question Scott if he had been in contact with anyone from Kodak.

What have we actually heard? Absolutely nothing.

OK, from a corporate point of view, we probably are nothing more then a bunch of Anoraks and Film nerds, but in this shrinking market, I'm afraid that from a Film point of view, we are all that Kodak have.

We have seen comments from Ilford here in the past. We have seen comments from other suppliers from Eastern Europe, but I have never seen an official comment from Kodak or Fuji. Maybe they don't get social media?

I've never worked with Kodak. But I promise you that Fuji doesn't understand it. And the Westerners don't have much say at Fuji.

[vpwphoto]

How about all of you?

PE

I am going to buy another 100' of double X 16mm!

[semi-ambivalent]

Bingo! This is the reason why I asked the question Scott if he had been in contact with anyone from Kodak.

What have we actually heard? Absolutely nothing.

OK, from a corporate point of view, we probably are nothing more then a bunch of Anoraks and Film nerds, but in this shrinking market, I'm afraid that from a Film point of view, we are all that Kodak have.

We have seen comments from Ilford here in the past. We have seen comments from other suppliers from Eastern Europe, but I have never seen an official comment from Kodak or Fuji. Maybe they don't get social media?

Pardon, but what is an "Anorak" in this context? I own an anorak made out of English "Ventile" cloth. From the early 70s. But that's probably not what you mean here. :)

s-a

[Steve Smith]

Pardon, but what is an "Anorak" in this context?

I think the origination of this expression is due to the anorak being the clothing of choice for train spotters. Now used as a term for any nerdy/geeky types who like trains, buses, aircraft, old cameras, etc.


Steve.

[semi-ambivalent]

I think the origination of this expression is due to the anorak being the clothing of choice for train spotters. Now used as a term for any nerdy/geeky types who like trains, buses, aircraft, old cameras, etc.


Steve.

Hey! I resemble that remark! :laugh:

s-a

[Aristophanes]

My comments here center on "What would you do if you were the CEO of EK"?

I would first establish a budget for film sales advertizing. Second, I would become a supporter of APUG and Photo Net for Analog. and finally, I would have a representative present on APUG and PN to interact with customers for Analog products and digital products.

How about all of you?

PE

I would not advertise film to the converted. They already will buy as much as they can afford.

Advertising to the general public is a waste unless you are also advertising new cameras for all that film to go into. Where are those?

The biggest stumbling block to film use int he digital age is how to convince people who no longer pay for processing of film to take up that cost again, plus buy the film, all in a world where a majority is now sharing online.

Advertising will not turn the market around and probably won;t do much to stem the decline in sales against these headwinds. I'd spend the capital elsewhere, like setting up a single point mail order processing lab for all Kodak emulsions, with direct sales film and darkroom products, as well as investing in a top-notch scanning service that drops files straight to the consumer's preferred online photo storage place.

I don't think that can happen in a publicly owned Kodak, but a private ownership group would be advised to go there. The pressure to grow revenues in public companies is relentless and cannot deal with managing a shrinking, and realistically small, product line.

[DREW WILEY]

From a distribution standpoint any aggressive direct sales scheme would be anathema if you ever
expect to obtain Kodak film locally anywhere. They can't have it both ways. Virtually every private dealer would drop them like a rattlesnake. They have a right to make a buck too, and many folks still
expect the convenince of walking into a store a buying just what they need without delay. A strategy like that has proven to be marketing suicide in any number of instances. It also creates a
total bottleneck where if anything goes wrong to that one source, the system collapses.

[Brian C. Miller]

My comments here center on "What would you do if you were the CEO of EK"?

I would first establish a budget for film sales advertizing. Second, I would become a supporter of APUG and Photo Net for Analog. and finally, I would have a representative present on APUG and PN to interact with customers for Analog products and digital products.

How about all of you?

PE

How to turn around Kodak as a film company:
#1: Drop every single unprofitable division. No digital printers, etc. There's quite a few profitable things going on at Kodak. No stupid more pie-in-the-sky projects in commodity markets.

#2: Establish in consumer's minds that film is the cool thing. Film is it. This means promoting people using film.
"Do you Lomo?" "Hello, Lomo!" "I went to the movies and saw a film."
There's a guy who carries a Philips Explorer 8x10 to war zones. Can't remember his name right off hand.
I would sponsor at least one top photographer in each war zone using film. Tell him to photograph everything, like Arthur Fellig did. How do we know Lance Armstrong from some other sweaty guy on a bike? Advertising.

#3: And always rub it in everybody's face that film produces better quality. Until Tim Parkin's test, I didn't know that digital sensors have a problem with accurate color reproduction. I was flabbergasted to see that sunlight reflecting off chrome would produce magenta artifacts. Somebody spent how much for that digital camera and it just falls over dead like that? Ech! Really, various small bloggers have done more for film advertising than Kodak.

#4: Mail processing. The mailers would be available where you bought the film, so that you could get easy roll film processing. Sure, the local processors could do this, but do they? No. Most processors offering mail-order make you jump through a few hoops to send your film to them, and sometimes the services are limited. You have to find someone, navigate the page, find the form, fill it out, go to the post office and mail it. Two weeks ago I sent off my film to a mail-order processor, and maybe it will be here soon. Slow turnaround sucks.

#5: +1 on a Kodak rep for the forums, all of them.

#6: Were the Coloramas thrown away? That's a great way to show digital doesn't do this! The Coloramas at the end were made from cropped 35mm. What digital camera can do that? Have a rotating exhibition around the country, and put the things at eye level. It's not fair that New York gets everything!

#7: ECN-2 process is alive and well! Why not initiate a switch to ECN-2? Motion picture film is awesome!

#8: This is not the least thing: Advertising! Products die if they aren't advertised. Show what film does, how easy it is to use, and build a case for it!