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Keenevision
03-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Hi-
New to APUG- just won a 9x12 ICS Ideal of EvilBay...
trying to find as much info as I can about Film Holders.... my intention is to load them with photo paper and produce contact prints.... I am an activity head at a day camp teaching darkroom photography to kids 9yrs to 15yrs old.... so it's MUCH easier to do paper neg development and printing, given the 45 minute sessions the group has...

Been using a 110B polaroid converted to 4x5 with Grafmatics, but thought I'd switch it up a bit using an old plate camera....

Anyone got any ICS holders lying around they want to sell.....?? ;):blink:

Also, any thoughts about loading plates with photo paper?? Would I NEED the sheaths??:pouty:

Thanks,

Bob Keene

Ian Grant
03-10-2012, 11:02 AM
Welcome to APUG

There's no pre-WWII standard for German 9x12 holders so you need to be careful getting the right ones. I'm not sure what edge pattern the ICA's used but here's some variations (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum192/51677-9x12-plate-holders-1-a.html).

Ian

Keenevision
03-10-2012, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the info- I'll look through everything. I should mention that the seller specified it to be an ICA Ideal 'C', 9x12cm.....
It looks like a beauty- hope I can use it...

Anyone?
attached a few pix.4760147602

snederhiser
03-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Hello;
I have a Recommar 33 and a Voightlander that uses the same film holders. Believe that ICA used the same size. Keep your eyes open on Epay, these come along often. Most of the holders I have bought had the film sheaths in the holders. Many were sized for 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inch film. You can figure on replacing the light seal on the top of the holders. Go to a fabric store and buy a good mohair fabric of the correct thickness and dark color. You will need the sheaths for loading the paper or film in. Have fun, Steven.

Mark Layne
03-10-2012, 08:40 PM
The Ideal uses a pop off holder -not a slide in
Mark

Ian Grant
03-11-2012, 06:19 AM
The Ideal uses a pop off holder -not a slide in
Mark

It's quite clear from the photos above that this ICA Ideal uses slide in holders, the focus screen pops open for focussing but has to be slid out :D. They aren't quite the same (http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00C3RC) as the ones I have, seems to be a wider lip

The best place to find 9x12 holders is German ebay.de - it's where I've bought all mine the. Login etc is identical whatever front end as it's a common database. However items don't always map across to each version properly. Search 9x12 under Foto & Camcorder there's not many listed at the moment, they are best bought as sets of 3 in a small case. You will need patience waiting for the right ones.

Quarter plate holders would have been sold mainly in the UK, but both formats were sold and some sellers get the sizes wrong.

Ian

Andy38
03-11-2012, 08:27 AM
When you see the piece below on a corner of your camera, it's sure that it uses a pop off holder.
I have some like that in Hüttig, ICA and Zeiss Icon.
On the plate holder for ICA Ideal 9X12cm, it's written 726/6.
47641

Mark Layne
03-11-2012, 08:40 AM
It's quite clear from the photos above that this ICA Ideal uses slide in holders, the focus screen pops open for focussing but has to be slid out :D. They aren't quite the same (http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00C3RC) as the ones I have, seems to be a wider lip

The best place to find 9x12 holders is German ebay.de - it's where I've bought all mine the. Login etc is identical whatever front end as it's a common database. However items don't always map across to each version properly. Search 9x12 under Foto & Camcorder there's not many listed at the moment, they are best bought as sets of 3 in a small case. You will need patience waiting for the right ones.

Quarter plate holders would have been sold mainly in the UK, but both formats were sold and some sellers get the sizes wrong.

Ian
Ian
I went and checked my Ideal. It uses pop off holders #726/7. The lever on the top right of the camera is the holder release lever so I wonder if there has been a odification. It has the drop bed which confirms that it is an Ideal. However the camera does not look modified however. Where the bed strut attaches to the bed is shaped differently to my camera
Mark

Andy38
03-11-2012, 09:37 AM
Here are some ICA Ideal models (6,5X9, 9X12, 10X15, 13X18; double plate holder only for 10X15 and 13X18) : they all have the lever and use pop off holders :

daveandiputra
03-12-2012, 12:00 AM
I wonder if the soviet Fotokor cameras uses the same cassettes, it looks like it is based on the same design. There's loads of the those cassettes on Alex-photo eBay store.

Cheers,

Dave.

Keenevision
03-12-2012, 09:40 AM
Ok- so here is the info I'm getting....


Ian
I went and checked my Ideal. It uses pop off holders #726/7. The lever on the top right of the camera is the holder release lever so I wonder if there has been a odification. It has the drop bed which confirms that it is an Ideal. However the camera does not look modified however. Where the bed strut attaches to the bed is shaped differently to my camera
Mark

AND


When you see the piece below on a corner of your camera, it's sure that it uses a pop off holder.
I have some like that in Hüttig, ICA and Zeiss Icon.
On the plate holder for ICA Ideal 9X12cm, it's written 726/6.
47641

:confused:

AND- some say slide in, and some say pop on.... back numerics "726/6" or "726/7"... Holy Crap! Here's additional pix just so I can MORE confused...
4768747688
Seller listed this as an ICA Ideal Model C 9x12....

I feel like that dog in the RCA Victor ads.....47689

Welll... ok. Anyone else? :errm:

of course, I haven't received the camera yet either- so... I'm going to try to acquire a couple of backs and see what works... then be alerted to the sell off of the ones that don't work.... :pinch:

Bob K

bugbugbug
03-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Once you have the camera in-hand and can give us some measurements and detailed pics we can give you some better answers. ^_^

Keenevision
04-10-2012, 10:17 PM
:( Received the "ICA Ideal 111", and of course it's a 6.5 x 9!!
AND it takes "pop on" type film backs…! So I think I can make the Kodak film/plate holders work. They have two little tabs that the Ideal film back locks can grab- as long as I'm careful. Now here's a question: does my camera need more light seals? I took this photo using a Kodak holder with a paper neg(inverted in Photoshop) see the leaks! And heres a shot of the back of the camera- notice how there seems to be a place where a light seal might go? That small trench?
Anyone have an idea? Love the camera, but without pop-on film holders, this will be a challenge....:blink:
4928349284

bugbugbug
04-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Bob,

Welcome to the frustrating world of European plate cameras! ^__^

Those Kodak plate holders are probably for the Kodak Recomar 18 camera. Their light trap consisted of a track along the sides and fuzzy velvet strips at the top and the bottom.

Your Ideal uses a metal lip all around the opening of the plate holder to provide a mechanical light trap. That also requires the tip-in mounting since it won't slide on the back.

I have a copy of the 1931 Zeiss Ikon catalog. It lists the following holders for your 6.5x9cm camera:

Plate Holder: 726/3 -- this would require a "septum" or insert to hold cut film or paper.

Film pack holder: 728/2 -- this could be adapted for use with cut film or paper, but was designed to be used with the long discontinued film packs.

If you want to use your Kodak holders, you could build up a velvet light trap around the four edges of the holder. It needs to fill the gap between the edges of the holder and the film opening. If you start gluing things, I'd recommend gluing to the holder rather than the camera. Fuzzy velvet against a flat surface in the camera should provide an adequate light trap if the strip is wide enough.

Good luck!