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wblynch
05-10-2012, 08:16 PM
Perez and execs chomping the good meat. Soon to be only bones left for the rest.


Our only hope is a white knight to take the film and coated products.

RattyMouse
05-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Another layoff at EK this week. About 100 more.

PE

My goodness. At what point is no one left? Are all 100 in the film division? How can there be hope that somehow, someway Kodak will keep making film?

Ektagraphic
05-11-2012, 10:23 PM
Buy, buy, buy, buy KODAK film. Use, use, use, use Kodak paper and chemistry.

Ken Nadvornick
05-11-2012, 11:05 PM
Buy, buy, buy, buy KODAK film. Use, use, use, use Kodak paper and chemistry.

Very much agree, except...

They discontinued my favorite b&w films (Panatomic-X and Plus-X), my favorite color film (see your avatar), and all of their b&w papers, and other transparency films. So I would if I could, but I can't.

I do still use their KRST selenium toner. And their formula for D-76, which I scratch mix. And I also have some beautiful old Kodak glassware with the classic antique logo on it. In fact, I'm looking to source more antique Kodak darkroom gear. Not as an investment, but just because I think it's so cool. I'd love to get one of their old balance scales in nice condition. I'd even use it for nostalgia's sake.

BUT...

If they somehow manage to come back in any way as a color film company, I'll be back on board for slides. Even if it's not your avatar. And especially if I can process it at home in a 6-bath kit.

B&W will remain English, however. They were there for me in the darkest days when I really needed them. Plus, their medium and high speed b&w films come in all sizes from 35mm up to the size of my house. I like that.

Ken

wiltw
05-12-2012, 02:02 PM
It is with great sadness that I read this thread. The value of all my film equipment continues to fall, as the films vanish, and great former Yellow Box God continues to shrink. But a question crossed my mind...

Where is the source of all the film used for reconnaissance purposes by the US Military?! Have recon cameras gone digital, too?

As for the economics over time evolving, I'd like to offer these observations...

When I was a freshman in college at a private university, I paid $1200 per year in tuition cost. My first job was at $12k per year, or 10 times what I paid in tuition during my freshman year.
Today, that same university costs $38400 per year just for tuition; can you imagine anyone hoping for $384K per year in salary, let alone one year out of college?!
Many years ago, we could expect 4% interest on a simple passbook savings account in the bank; our money would double in value at that rate every 18 years. About the rate of inflation.
Now, we could expect 0.5% interest on a simple passbook savings account in the bank; our money would double in value at that rate every 144 years. But inflation is higher, at about 3.5-4%, so no point in putting any money in the back, inflation eats it up!

Old-N-Feeble
05-12-2012, 02:07 PM
Bankers run this country. 'Nuff said.

Photo Engineer
05-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Everyone wants to be a banker, financial analyst or stock speculator. No one wants to be a physicist, chemist or mathematician.

Those latter jobs go begging and the former consist of laid off college grads. There was an NBC news spot on this.

PE

Old-N-Feeble
05-12-2012, 02:53 PM
PE... If one wishes to be a physicist, chemist or mathematician then they'd better be damned good at it and work for an American pharmaceutical company or anywhere outside the USA... like China... or India... or Brazil... or??

andrew.roos
05-12-2012, 04:00 PM
But a question crossed my mind...

Where is the source of all the film used for reconnaissance purposes by the US Military?! Have recon cameras gone digital, too?


I'm afraid so - often with realtime satcom downlink. This has been the trend since the early years of sattelite imaging when dropping film cannisters proved unreliable.
Kodak film was used in the SR71 blackbird but not the birds and UAVs that replaced them.

CGW
05-12-2012, 04:25 PM
It is with great sadness that I read this thread. The value of all my film equipment continues to fall, as the films vanish, and great former Yellow Box God continues to shrink. But a question crossed my mind...

Where is the source of all the film used for reconnaissance purposes by the US Military?! Have recon cameras gone digital, too?

As for the economics over time evolving, I'd like to offer these observations...

When I was a freshman in college at a private university, I paid $1200 per year in tuition cost. My first job was at $12k per year, or 10 times what I paid in tuition during my freshman year.
Today, that same university costs $38400 per year just for tuition; can you imagine anyone hoping for $384K per year in salary, let alone one year out of college?!
Many years ago, we could expect 4% interest on a simple passbook savings account in the bank; our money would double in value at that rate every 18 years. About the rate of inflation.
Now, we could expect 0.5% interest on a simple passbook savings account in the bank; our money would double in value at that rate every 144 years. But inflation is higher, at about 3.5-4%, so no point in putting any money in the back, inflation eats it up!


More good news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/business/student-loans-weighing-down-a-generation-with-heavy-debt.html?_r=1&hp

jnanian
05-12-2012, 04:30 PM
it would be nice if they did all these thing that are suggested
but their current pricing is kind of over the top!
100 sheets of 4x5 film ( tmy ) is nearly double what ilford charges
and close to triple what the eastern european films are.
i was going to buy some recently, but couldn't justify the cost
no matter how much i have shot this film in the last 20 years
(thousands of sheets and rolls &c ) ...
i wish kodak the best, but my at the prices they are charging
you need to be independently wealthy to buy+use it.

Photo Engineer
05-12-2012, 04:36 PM
When I started college, the total tuition was under $400 / semester, but the minimum wage was $0.50 / hour.

Most chemistry courses nowdays center around Forensic science.

Just some thoughts.

Oh, and after 34 pages, this is NOT a quick read.

PE

Old-N-Feeble
05-12-2012, 04:38 PM
Living in the USA is DEFINITELY NOT CHEAP NOR FISCALLY FAIR. I'll probably move elsewhere when I retire.

CGW
05-12-2012, 04:40 PM
it would be nice if they did all these thing that are suggested
but their current pricing is kind of over the top!
100 sheets of 4x5 film ( tmy ) is nearly double what ilford charges
and close to triple what the eastern european films are.
i was going to buy some recently, but couldn't justify the cost
no matter how much i have shot this film in the last 20 years
(thousands of sheets and rolls &c ) ...
i wish kodak the best, but my at the prices they are charging
you need to be independently wealthy to buy+use it.

Agree. Despite my flagrantly over-reported pessimism, I'm truly concerned that price is building as the biggest downdraft on demand for Kodak product. Local pricing here in Toronto--thanks, apparently, to no steady wholesale supplier--is climbing and it's still cheaper to buy from B&H. Suck it up? For now, yeah. But sinking demand-->higher prices-->lower demand-->even higher prices. People loathed old Aristophanes hereabouts but he knew the economics no one really wanted to face.

RattyMouse
05-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Agree. Despite my flagrantly over-reported pessimism, I'm truly concerned that price is building as the biggest downdraft on demand for Kodak product. Local pricing here in Toronto--thanks, apparently, to no steady wholesale supplier--is climbing and it's still cheaper to buy from B&H. Suck it up? For now, yeah. But sinking demand-->higher prices-->lower demand-->even higher prices. People loathed old Aristophanes hereabouts but he knew the economics no one really wanted to face.

It was very disappointing to see how Aristophanes was treated by some here. To an objective observer such as myself, I could clearly see he was no troll. The guy clearly knows what he is talking about regarding corporate economics. I never sensed he was happy about the seemingly unstoppable demise of film. He was just reading the cards as they continued to be dealt.

RattyMouse
05-12-2012, 04:51 PM
PE... If one wishes to be a physicist, chemist or mathematician then they'd better be damned good at it and work for an American pharmaceutical company or anywhere outside the USA... like China... or India... or Brazil... or??


Pharma is no good place to go. I'm a chemist with friends who work for big pharmaceutical companies in the US. They are survivors, as there have been massive layoffs across the industry as it has consolidated. After that, outsourcing to Asian labs is the next big threat. Guys with 20 years experience designing medicines to fight cancer are completely afraid for their jobs. It truly is a pathetic world now.

Old-N-Feeble
05-12-2012, 04:54 PM
Ratty, a damned shame for certain and pathetic it truly is. God Bless the USA... Our world-class corporations are SO DEDICATED to our country and it's people...

jnanian
05-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Agree. Despite my flagrantly over-reported pessimism, I'm truly concerned that price is building as the biggest downdraft on demand for Kodak product. Local pricing here in Toronto--thanks, apparently, to no steady wholesale supplier--is climbing and it's still cheaper to buy from B&H. Suck it up? For now, yeah. But sinking demand-->higher prices-->lower demand-->even higher prices. People loathed old Aristophanes hereabouts but he knew the economics no one really wanted to face.

cgw

i don't think you are a pessimist, you are a realist ..
no one wants to read or see or hear what they know to be true.
( i agree with most of what you say ... )

i know what you mean, i thought about how if i don't buy it now it was going to be more expensive
because my measly 200 sheets would have kept the price down ... but then i realized
that i don't have $360 to spend on 180$, or 90$ of film. i would rather not eat ( or make my family eat )
mac+cheese or ramen-noodles or PBJ sandwiches for a few months because i splurged on film.
besides i don't think my 200 sheets will be missed one bit ... i bought 200 sheets a few months
ago and it wasn't noticed, they raised the prices before and afterwards.

john

Photo Engineer
05-12-2012, 06:22 PM
It was very disappointing to see how Aristophanes was treated by some here. To an objective observer such as myself, I could clearly see he was no troll. The guy clearly knows what he is talking about regarding corporate economics. I never sensed he was happy about the seemingly unstoppable demise of film. He was just reading the cards as they continued to be dealt.

If he was so correct, how could so many people poke so many holes in his arguments? I think that is what I noticed more than anything else. His feelings about analog are, as you say and I agree.

Pe

lxdude
05-12-2012, 06:37 PM
A cogent point, PE.
He had a point of view, and it was based at least in part on his background, but that didn't make his opinions right.
More than once he misinterpreted events at Kodak, stating they indicated something which was not so.
So he got challenged, and rightly so.