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clayne
03-23-2012, 12:03 AM
Dang! I was just about to ...

Someone already did on the first page. I'm surprised no one has brought up Plus-X or TXP.

Edit: someone did.

Helinophoto
03-23-2012, 04:05 AM
I think a 'duh' film for me to bring back would be TXP 320. Its still being made as a sheet film so the formula is current (not like the Panatomic-X which has Cadmium).
Put 1000 rolls up in 220 and I'm certain it would sell out.

or 120. =)

Love that film

georg16nik
03-23-2012, 04:32 AM
Heck, if they would just advertise Film's GOOD properties a little, I'm sure you'd see at least hundreds of thousands in the U.S. dust off their film cameras and join the new "too cool to shoot a digicam - so I shoot film" trend. .....
......But, Kodak needs to do an advertizing blitz about the SOUL of photography and blah, blah about film being awesome...and voila - you will have a run on film, guaranteed. Marketers don't call us all "sheeple" for nothing. They need to get some GOOD PR machines working for them. Believe me, they exist hardcore in this country, I don't know why Kodak is not using them.

Jedidiah, Kodak are client to one of the top Ad agencies in the world - Ogilvy & Mather. David Ogilvy is considered the father of advertising.
This is the last Kodak Ad campaign I heard about http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/thework/1088379/ by Ogilvy & Mather


The difference might be substantial in a 20x30 print but probably only from 35mm. If you want to print 20x30 you don't need a sharper, finer grained and painfully slow film (which will also do nothing for your lens that will be sorely tested) - you need a bigger negative.

I think that's why Tech Pan is gone - TMX in 35mm is good enough that the limiting factors become other than film - to get the most from it you must lock your mirror up (if using an SLR- could also use a rangefinder of course) and shoot off a tripod AND have a superb lens, and you still have the tonality and spectral response to deal with. And if you are going to shoot off a sturdy tripod anyway you might as well use a camera big enough for the job, especially now that they are affordable.

Roger, the difference is substantial in medium format as well. Thats why they are offering it in that format since a few months.
Also, I think its available upon request in larger sizes as well, not without a reason. Yep, its spreading to other formats, folks.
The new developer they did last year for the medium format launch is spectacular.

At least in Europe, Kodak Technical Pan was unreasonably priced and partially that helped its demise., these days most Kodak products are still keeping double prices over here and less and less folks are buying it.

As for Tmax, well Rollei Retro 80S completely murders Tmax in all regards and have the same speed. It has been talked about many times.
Both, Adox CMS and Retro Retro 80S and some other films are in fact made by AGFA, so QC is top notch and more than whats needed.
AGFA don't sell directly to end customers anymore, only biz to biz, hence You have Adox and Rollei doing what they are doing.
Same story with papers.

Roger Cole
03-23-2012, 05:32 AM
Well I always loved APX 100 and 400. Where are they?

And while they're at it, bring back Agfa's last line of C41 films. Optima 100 was good but nothing that I can't get from Portra, close enough. But Ultra 50 had a saturation that was just incredible, even more than today's Ektar 100, heck I think it was more saturated than Velvia. I rarely wanted such exaggerated color but when I wanted it, Ultra 50 delivered. What I'd like even better would be something like Portrait 160. Today we have highly saturated film (Ektar 100) and moderately highly saturated film (everything else) - there is no muted pastel film available. I've no idea how to get that kind of look anymore from film/paper. The only way I know to get it is digitally.

Steve Smith
03-23-2012, 06:03 AM
And while they're at it, bring back Agfa's last line of C41 films.

How are Kodak going to do that?!!!


Steve.

georg16nik
03-23-2012, 06:15 AM
Roger, they say the last reincarnation of APX is still on the market as APX100 from Agfaphoto or as Rollei Retro 100.
Apart from that, Adox got the machines and engineers form AFGA that did APX, so its a matter of time to start rolling.
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Fims.html
You can see that they are working on it - ADOX Pan 100 (i.p.), ADOX Pan 400

Resurrect color is a no go, at least not in Europe.. given the current economy situation and market.
Ektar is a perfect film, so shoot it while You still have it.

Some Kodak ads from 1970 till present http://www.advertolog.com/brands/kodak/

Roger Cole
03-23-2012, 06:15 AM
How are Kodak going to do that?!!!


Steve.

Little bit of a diversion there. The poster I was responding to was saying that Adox film was just Agfa. So I meant, well, in that case, have them (Adox) give us those films.

Back to Kodak dreamin'...

Roger Cole
03-23-2012, 06:16 AM
Roger, they say the last reincarnation of APX is still on the market as APX100 from Agfaphoto or as Rollei Retro 100.
Apart from that, Adox got the machines and engineers form AFGA that did APX, so its a matter of time to start rolling.
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Fims.html
You can see that they are working on it - ADOX Pan 100 (i.p.), ADOX Pan 400

Resurrect color is a no go, at least not in Europe.. given the current economy situation and market.
Ektar is a perfect film, so shoot it while You still have it.

Some Kodak ads since the 1970 http://www.advertolog.com/brands/kodak/

I do like Ektar a lot, and it's less...temperamental than Ultra 50 was. But damn that film was something.

DREW WILEY
03-23-2012, 11:08 AM
Why we're very unlikely to see any of these past films resurrected is that everyone wants certain favorites,
and Kodak has already done an excellent job of making their remaining film lineup the most versatile ever.
Pooling buying power on specialty products isn't that easy unless you're gov't, a huge industrial user, or some outfit looking to rebrand and volume distribute yourself. Chromes from them are probably gone for good. But in anything like a custom run of anything else, just be happy if it's less than seven figures. Maybe if it one of their old standby products, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If you want them to stay in business, keep buying what they offer now.

jnanian
03-23-2012, 11:49 AM
i find it very strange that they dismantled the whole processing side of their business,
killed off paper, sold off the chemistry division, has discontinued emulsion after emulsion.
then a month or so after they file for bankruptcy, say they are going to resurrect all their old
emulsions in a boutique quantities ... they just raised their prices again by 15%, i can only imagine
how much their new boutique line of film will cost the consumer. a 100sheet box of tmy has more than doubled in price in the
past 10 years, if in boutique amounts made its going to cost 4x what i paid 10years ago ... in the middle of a recession, i don't think
many people will buy already excessively expensive film.
but then again, maybe they are just coming to their senses ?
maybe they will sell master rolls of sheet film to our good friends in california to cut to custom sizes, notch and package ...


As much as I'd like to see some of the wishes posted here come true (especially Pan-X), I've often wondered (if, indeed, Kodak is committed to film) why they don't have a presence here, on APUG. Talk about the target market... If a Kodak rep was as accessible as Mr. Galley is for Ilford, we wouldn't need to speculate. Seems like a no-brainer, to me. One of the reasons I'm using more Ilford products than in the past is Simon's presence here. His participation speaks volumes about Ilford's commitment, and the increasing loyalty I have for Ilford products.


hi eddie,
i know exactly what you mean. having simon here is the icing on the cake !
with no one from KOduck here, this is just 11 pages of speculation ...

railwayman3
03-23-2012, 12:13 PM
hi eddie,
i know exactly what you mean. having simon here is the icing on the cake !
with no one from KOduck here, this is just 11 pages of speculation ...

I have never understood why no-one from Kodak ever seems to appear here....surely it's a no brainer that this is an ideal way (presumably at little or no cost?) of communicating directly with genuine enthusiasts? I think that PE has said that APUG is read by Kodak people, but that means nothing.

(OTOH, Kodak seem to have missed the obvious for years now, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.... :whistling: )

clayne
03-23-2012, 12:26 PM
As for Tmax, well Rollei Retro 80S completely murders Tmax in all regards and have the same speed. It has been talked about many times.
Both, Adox CMS and Retro Retro 80S and some other films are in fact made by AGFA, so QC is top notch and more than whats needed.
AGFA don't sell directly to end customers anymore, only biz to biz, hence You have Adox and Rollei doing what they are doing.
Same story with papers.

Basically murders how? Sharpness or some other benchmarker-based number? They're not even remotely the same kind of film. A Toyota murders a Ferrari on gas mileage too.

You can't shoot everything with 80S.

Nelson
03-23-2012, 12:29 PM
If film regains the popularity that other "forgotten" items have, such as vinyl records, Kodak could be on to something. Who would have thought in the late '90s that records would be as popular as they are now? Some 2 or 3 million vinyl albums were sold last year, more than in 1991. Same could happen with film as well.

CGW
03-23-2012, 12:31 PM
[QUOTE=jnanian;1320496]i find it very strange that they dismantled the whole processing side of their business,
killed off paper, sold off the chemistry division, has discontinued emulsion after emulsion.
then a month or so after they file for bankruptcy, say they are going to resurrect all their old
emulsions in a boutique quantities ... they just raised their prices again by 15%, i can only imagine
how much their new boutique line of film will cost the consumer. a 100sheet box of tmy has more than doubled in price in the
past 10 years, if in boutique amounts made its going to cost 4x what i paid 10years ago ... in the middle of a recession, i don't think
many people will buy already excessively expensive film.
but then again, maybe they are just coming to their senses ?
maybe they will sell master rolls of sheet film to our good friends in california to cut to custom sizes, notch and package ...


Might be best just to chill on this one. I'm still looking for a press release. To date, this amounts to "unnamed sources say..." and may be what an over-refreshed Kodak rep said to an over-refreshed audience. Who knows? Back to warming up some film.

georg16nik
03-23-2012, 12:56 PM
Basically murders how? Sharpness or some other benchmarker-based number? They're not even remotely the same kind of film. A Toyota murders a Ferrari on gas mileage too.

You can't shoot everything with 80S.
Yes, You can shoot everything with 80S, if You've tried it and dev in the appropriate developers., You would know it.
On top of that 80S is sensitive up to 750nm, so its IR capable film.

Some folks say that You can't develop everything in Rodinal but if You know what You are doing, then its like a walk in the park.


..To date, this amounts to "unnamed sources say..." and may be what an over-refreshed Kodak rep said to an over-refreshed audience. Who knows? Back to warming up some film.

Obviously, there was an event.

The meeting looks legit
http://www.smpte.org/sections/hollywood/events/hollywood-section-meeting-march-20-2012

thou, the page is deleted now but still safe in google's cache


Hollywood Section Meeting March 20, 2012 (http://www.smpte.org/sections/hollywood/events/hollywood-section-meeting-march-20-2012)
Section Meeting


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 6:30pm - 9:30pm


HOLLYWOOD SECTION MEETING
TUESDAY, MARCH 20, 2012
The next section meeting date will be on Tuesday, March 20th at the Linwood Dunn Theater.
Reception at 6:30pm, and the program will start at 7:30pm
The subject will be:
THE TECHNOLOGY OF FILM, FROM THE BEGINNING UNTIL NOW, presented by
Beverly Pasterczyk.
More details will be posted soon.
Location Linwood Dunn Theater 1313 N. Vine St.
Los Angeles, CA 90038United States
34 5' 40.6572" N, 118 19' 37.164" W






Looks like Ms. Pasterczyk might be reached here http://www.smpte.org/smpte/70066/contact

Ken Nadvornick
03-23-2012, 01:04 PM
Looks like Ms. Pasterczyk might be reached here http://www.smpte.org/smpte/70066/contact

There 'ya go, CGW...

Ken

CGW
03-23-2012, 01:05 PM
Yes, You can shoot everything with 80S, if You've tried it and dev in the appropriate developers., You would know it.
On top of that 80S is sensitive up to 750nm, so its IR capable film.

Some folks say that You can't develop everything in Rodinal but if You know what You are doing, then its like a walk in the park.



Obviously, there was an event.


thou, the page is deleted now but still safe in google's cache



Looks like Ms. Pasterczyk might be reached here http://www.smpte.org/smpte/70066/contact

Go ahead and see if she responds. I've seen the SMPTE notice, thanks, when I tried to drill down. I'm still waiting, though, for the OP to post a link to his source.

georg16nik
03-23-2012, 01:33 PM
Go ahead and see if she responds. I've seen the SMPTE notice, thanks, when I tried to drill down. I'm still waiting, though, for the OP to post a link to his source.
A friend of mine from the movie biz in Hollywood already sent her an email.
I will let You guys know.

DREW WILEY
03-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Trying to compare TMax to Rollei based upon the requirement of enlarging 35mm negs its a pretty narrow perspective. TMX is very consistently mfg and remarkably versatile, coming in multiple formats, and responding
in a very predictable fashion in many difficult technical scenarios. I don't personally do general shooting in 35mm
either (though I have for expensive clients, when the look was appropriate), but do use it in the lab for various
tricky things like color separation negs and masks; and in the past, as a very predictable film for architectural shots in large format. I love it in 8x10 as a portrait film. It has great micro-contrast and a very long scale, with
excellent separation deep into the shadows. Needs to be correctly metered, however - not a film for bozos. For
general outdoor shooting I prefer its faster cousin, TMY-2. But my idea of a really big enlargment from 35mm is
8X10! Want a big print, get a big camera!

wblynch
03-23-2012, 02:54 PM
I believe there was an enterprising soul who was getting special runs of Kodak film to cut into sheets, re-box and distribute. I think the magic number from Kodak was $50,000 for such an order.

This has to be verified of course, but a $50,000 minimum to get a special run does not sound insurmountable.