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Roger Cole
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
It isn't insurmountable if a dealer or group of dealers gets together and does it. They can project demand over, say, a year, and put in an order. Things might run out toward the end, or a bit might be left over and sold off at closeout, but it could work well that way.

I keep reading about how the price will increase. Why should it increase with smaller runs necessarily? It's quite possible that the reason the price is where it is now is that they have to produce more than they can sell and have a lot of waste, and that the big machines require a lot more material to make a run than they can actually sell in resulting product. In other words, "right sized" production could actually lower costs and thus, ideally, prices - or, more likely, maybe hold the line on further increases.

Roger Cole
03-23-2012, 03:06 PM
Why we're very unlikely to see any of these past films resurrected is that everyone wants certain favorites,
and Kodak has already done an excellent job of making their remaining film lineup the most versatile ever.
Pooling buying power on specialty products isn't that easy unless you're gov't, a huge industrial user, or some outfit looking to rebrand and volume distribute yourself. Chromes from them are probably gone for good. But in anything like a custom run of anything else, just be happy if it's less than seven figures. Maybe if it one of their old standby products, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If you want them to stay in business, keep buying what they offer now.

I fear you may well be right, though it isn't that bad because, as you say, their current films are so good.

If any discontinued films were to be brought back I think E6, being the most recently discontinued, would be the most likely. E100G also fits a niche that nobody else fills right now, a moderate contrast transparency film. Ok, Astia is a bit better in that regard and still readily available in 4x5 and 120, but not in 35mm or larger sizes and it's remaining stock only.

BUT - I keep remembering my conversation with the Freestyle rep when I called to check on stock of 35mm E100G. He said they just got in 200 or 250 rolls, forget which, and "we usually sell about 10 rolls a month so you should be fine." Ten rolls a MONTH in 35mm, for what is certainly one of the biggest dealers in North America. No wonder they discontinued it, and no wonder I agree that the odds of getting it back would be slim.

Jedidiah Smith
03-23-2012, 03:07 PM
...

This has to be verified of course, but a $50,000 minimum to get a special run does not sound insurmountable.

If that is a ball-park number, then we're talking some doable things here. That's $500 up front from 100 people. Not hard to do anymore with the way the Internet brings us all together. The question in my mind would be, is that the cost for an emulsion "ready to go" as in, already in production this minute, or is that the cost for a batch of something "that was shelved" as in, a film they quit producing months or years ago?

Curt
03-23-2012, 03:10 PM
I did in one word.

thomas l
03-23-2012, 03:16 PM
As for Tmax, well Rollei Retro 80S completely murders Tmax in all regards and have the same speed.

Rollei 80s is an aerial film, so it is a special film and does not murder TMAX as a photographic film. It is a special film, which can also be used for special purposes for photography, but it is never a substitute for TMAX. Only Hartmuth Schroeder and his special advertisers are always telling wonderful fairytales about this film (even Maco/Rollei does not tell this fairytales - don't forget he is not a manager of this company anymore!).

It would be great if Kodak's film division makes a comeback as a small good company:) Let's hope

Jeff Searust
03-23-2012, 04:00 PM
Been discussing this rumor with the boys in the store, and the consensus is that it may be true... Just remember the whole film with processing included business model is the way Kodak started and was run for many years. I see the whole small batch idea to be very possible, and I know if Kodak wants to go that direction, that they will be getting a lot of my money in the end.

jnanian
03-23-2012, 04:32 PM
I believe there was an enterprising soul who was getting special runs of Kodak film to cut into sheets, re-box and distribute. I think the magic number from Kodak was $50,000 for such an order.

This has to be verified of course, but a $50,000 minimum to get a special run does not sound insurmountable.

i think it was keith canham who was doing special runs of film for the ULF crowd, and it was way-less than $50K ... way-less ..
but i could be wrong ...



Been discussing this rumor with the boys in the store, and the consensus is that it may be true... Just remember the whole film with processing included business model is the way Kodak started and was run for many years. I see the whole small batch idea to be very possible, and I know if Kodak wants to go that direction, that they will be getting a lot of my money in the end.

it was a great business model ! and was what eastman kodak was built upon. shoot the film, send the camera in, get the film processed +printed
and the camera reloaded ...

it is too bad john garo isn't around to run the lab-side of things .. he was the best of his generation ..

DREW WILEY
03-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Keith Canham wasn't getting any kind of custom film. He was merely collector group orders for special cuts of
extant film runs, primarily in 8x10, a size just recently discontinued by Kodak anyway. I participated in
a couple of these group orders and am quite grateful to Keith for organizing it and handling the distribution. But
we're talking about films which are being coated fairly frequently anyway, and just having part of the master roll
dedicated to different packaging based on Kodaks minimum quantities for doing so. Coming up with a whole different emulsion than one already in the pipeline is a completely different question, even if they offered it in
the past. I'm no expert at it, but making film is both art and science, and some thing probably can't be resurrected if the people who knew the finer tricks have already retired or found work elsewhere, or if the
proprietary batching gear is gone, or if a special coating base was needed. The legendary Super-XX is a case
in instance, as is Tech Pan. And coming up with a whole new designer emulsion would be even more expensive
because you're got fresh R&D expense, and someone (other than them) would have to risk a backfire if the first
batch was off and didn't sell. There are already companies out there who will contract that sort of thing, at least in black and white products.

Photo Engineer
03-23-2012, 06:40 PM
Just FYI, Kodak announced the layoff of about 40 more film division employees today.

PE

Sirius Glass
03-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Now that really hurts!

wblynch
03-23-2012, 08:42 PM
No Senior Execs, I'm sure...

I am sad for the 40. And all the others, too.



Just FYI, Kodak announced the layoff of about 40 more film division employees today.

PE

Jedidiah Smith
03-23-2012, 08:49 PM
Man, they better get it together soon and get the new and restyled for 2012 game plan on or just call it done.

Hatchetman
03-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Just FYI, Kodak announced the layoff of about 40 more film division employees today.

PE


Jeez, that's sad. Any idea about how many are left?

zsas
03-23-2012, 08:53 PM
Just FYI, Kodak announced the layoff of about 40 more film division employees today.

PE

Sorry to hear, thoughts with your community.

Photo Engineer
03-23-2012, 09:41 PM
Jeez, that's sad. Any idea about how many are left?

2 are left! The guy in charge of the lights and HVAC and the guy who cleans the floors and rest rooms! :D

JK.

PE

ME Super
03-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Whew! Don't scare us like that, PE. I'm only 15,300 days old (give or take a hundred days or so) - I'm too young to have a heart attack. :laugh::laugh:

jnanian
03-24-2012, 07:57 AM
2 are left! The guy in charge of the lights and HVAC and the guy who cleans the floors and rest rooms! :D

JK.

PE


well, i've heard of hot dogs ( low grade of course ! ) being filled with saw dust and floor sweepings,
seeing these are the only 2 fellows left maybe their new / old emulsions will be made of floor sweepings too ...

Steve Smith
03-24-2012, 08:11 AM
2 are left!

Could end up like this: http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/70000/9000/500/79574/79574.strip.zoom.gif


Steve.

jnanian
03-24-2012, 08:48 AM
hi steve

i have a feeling that its going to be more like this
cause it is all going to be done this way in the end anyways

http://www.theonion.com/video/more-american-workers-outsourcing-own-jobs-oversea,14329/

firstdue
03-25-2012, 03:01 PM
If the coating division of Kodak gets free of the Eastman Kodak shackles and rids it's obligations to past employes it may well rise from the ashes.


In other words, screw the very people who made and developed the products, the people who worked their whole careers for their retirement. That's very disturbing to me.

I'd be willing to pay a premium for renewed Kodachrome, to shoot on 'special occasions' or assignment, but never, ever if they discarded their employees pensions like the paper case of a disposable camera.