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View Full Version : New Official French Presidential Portrait shot on film with a 1962 Rolleiflex TLR



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semi-ambivalent
06-06-2012, 12:40 AM
Seems like the French are always on the cutting edge. ;)

52115

Diapositivo
06-06-2012, 05:09 AM
If you tili the camera down, the head would appear smaller.

Why? The more you tilt the camera down, the more the head is "nearer" in respect of the feet.


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Simon R Galley
06-06-2012, 06:01 AM
Did you know the HM. Queen Elizabeth II is a film photographer ?

Well perhaps not now, but for sure pictures exist of her with a gold plated Minox and also a Leica, I also used to know the lab in London that printed her private pictures, also a small fact is that the present Queen' image is the most reproduced image in the history of the world and will probably forever remain so. Queen Victoria was also an early patron and great enthusiast for photography. I would also like to point out that we ( ILFORD ) and the borough of Ilford in Essex presented her with a gold plated ( probably a very thin coating ) ILFORD Advocat Camera on her accession, its probably buried somewhere in the royal archives.......anyway, I have just come from a long weekend ( an extra bank holiday ) thanks to the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, and a splendid time I had as well, and it was nice that the British weather was so kind as well.... well actually it was'nt... it was more like February. Hey Ho.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

The Queen has been photographed by some of the greats, but Cecil Beatons images are amazing and theatrical but as always Karsch ( of Ottawa ) is the best ( in my humble opinion ) as always, if you come to London, walk past the National Gallery and go around the corner to the National Portrait gallery....the best art gallery in England, bar none, and if you go now...rather a lot of pictures of the Queen.

Thomas Bertilsson
06-06-2012, 06:57 AM
Why? The more you tilt the camera down, the more the head is "nearer" in respect of the feet.


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It's called convergence. Look at buildings, or other upright structures. When you tilt camera backwards, it's as though they 'spread out', and if you tilt forward the peaks of the buildings lean in on each other. Why should it be any different with the president's head?

Edit: I think I have the concept stuck in my head wrong... :) Sorry to mislead anyone. It's obviously the other way around, so technically pointing the camera up is when buildings and things become distorted and 'lean in' on each other, so if the camera man was pointing the camera from above and down at the president, his head should in fact look smaller.

2nd Edit: everything from first edit, except the end - ...his head should in fact look larger
Not even two cups of coffee helped today.

Steve Smith
06-06-2012, 08:41 AM
and it was nice that the British weather was so kind as well.... well actually it was'nt... it was more like February.

It was nice down here!


Steve.

Simon R Galley
06-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Dear Steve,

The pageant should have been on the Solent.....not the Thames! It was parky up t'north...and my bunting seemed to lack any structural integrity....!

Kind Regards

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

dpurdy
06-06-2012, 10:34 AM
It's called convergence. Look at buildings, or other upright structures. When you tilt camera backwards, it's as though they 'spread out', and if you tilt forward the peaks of the buildings lean in on each other. Why should it be any different with the president's head?

Edit: I think I have the concept stuck in my head wrong... :) Sorry to mislead anyone. It's obviously the other way around, so technically pointing the camera up is when buildings and things become distorted and 'lean in' on each other, so if the camera man was pointing the camera from above and down at the president, his head should in fact look smaller.

Exactly and clearly in the photo of the photographer working you can see he is tilting the camera up. He is below the level of the Presidents head so his head is above the level of the building. The Pres head should be smaller not larger and the buildings should be getting smaller at top as well. they aren't so my opinion is that this was fixed in photoshop.
Dennis

Thomas Bertilsson
06-06-2012, 10:42 AM
They used a digital SLR as well.

Magnum Link (http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox&VBID=2K1HZS6T6Y7QG&IT=ZoomImage01_VForm&CT=Album&ALID=2K1HRGQHRAK&PN=2&SH=1&SF=1&PPM=0)

Diapositivo
06-06-2012, 11:31 AM
[...] so if the camera man was pointing the camera from above and down at the president, his head should in fact look smaller.

If the camera man was pointing the camera from above and down at the president, his head should in fact look larger. The head is nearer = larger. The wide angle amplifies the effect. It's like the "big nose" effect in a portrait taken with a wide angle. Whatever is nearer than the rest, appears larger than the rest.

You have convergence toward a vanishing point "somewhere up" when you point your camera upward. You have convergence toward a vanishing point "somewhere down" when you point the camera downward. If your camera is pointed "below the horizon", buildings appear to have an "inverted pyramid" shape, not a "pyramid" shape, to exaggerate for clarity.

In the case of this portrait, my impression is that the camera is pointing slightly downward. That both makes the head of the president slightly "larger" and makes the buildings show the slight "divergence" of the parallel lines (because they do converge, but they converge the opposite way in respect of what they normally do when we take pictures of buildings pointing the camera upward).

Fabrizio

PS To be clearer: the camera is a the same level of the President's head. The head is not at half height of the frame, but is in the upper half of the frame. The line dividing the frame in two passes let's say at the stern of the subject. But the camera is at his head heights, and it points downward. The head is the nearest part of the subject. The belly is further and looks "further" than natural, as if we were looking at his upper button from above. We are looking at his upper button from above. We have the impression we are looking at him from exactly the height of his nose, or mouth. The camera is (very slightly) pointing downward IMO.

Thomas Bertilsson
06-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Of course you're right, Fabrizio. I royally screwed up the convergence and thought about it backwards. Not even in my edit above did I get it right. Sorry to pick on you when it was I who got it wrong. Apologies.

It is strange that there is such a perceived distortion of his body size compared to his head, while the background isn't.




If the camera man was pointing the camera from above and down at the president, his head should in fact look larger. The head is nearer = larger. The wide angle amplifies the effect. It's like the "big nose" effect in a portrait taken with a wide angle. Whatever is nearer than the rest, appears larger than the rest.

You have convergence toward a vanishing point "somewhere up" when you point your camera upward. You have convergence toward a vanishing point "somewhere down" when you point the camera downward. If your camera is pointed "below the horizon", buildings appear to have an "inverted pyramid" shape, not a "pyramid" shape, to exaggerate for clarity.

In the case of this portrait, my impression is that the camera is pointing slightly downward. That both makes the head of the president slightly "larger" and makes the buildings show the slight "divergence" of the parallel lines (because they do converge, but they converge the opposite way in respect of what they normally do when we take pictures of buildings pointing the camera upward).

Fabrizio

Diapositivo
06-06-2012, 12:39 PM
You are welcome and I do have a great esteem of your contribution to this forum!

Thomas Bertilsson
06-06-2012, 04:53 PM
You are welcome and I do have a great esteem of your contribution to this forum!

Likewise, Fabrizio.

lxdude
06-06-2012, 07:05 PM
Maybe the dude just has a big head!:happy: