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Photo Engineer
08-28-2012, 04:49 PM
PE,

Do you know how the remaining Kodak coating machine compares in size with those at Inoviscoat and at China Lucky which are apparently running now mainly on non silver halide coating?
Is there a market for non silver halide coating in the US?
Thanks.

IDK, Probably the Rochester machine is larger, but the one in Colorado was about 1.5x the width of the Rochester machine.

IDK. Probably very little at that thickness.

PE

mikendawn
08-28-2012, 05:32 PM
If you replace Kodak with oil paint and photographic pictures with just pictures, what changes? Is it still good comedy?

Sorry, I own DSLR and have used many digital cameras with good results, but it just isn't the same thing. It isn't the same workflow and the result is different. What is so irrational about it? The medium can be one part of the art. The feeling it delivers.

Sure, you can use some flashy plugin to turn your digital photos to "oil paintings". Still some people want to buy real oil paintings. Why? Why does that matter to some people? Are they also just irrational, incapable of seeing the picture behind the medium?

No, it just means they want some good Comedy! :)

56199

kuparikettu
08-28-2012, 05:40 PM
No, it just means they want some good Comedy!
:)

56199

Well, somebody has to, otherwise they'd starve and wouldn't that just be cruel? :)

SilverGlow
08-28-2012, 07:13 PM
If you replace Kodak with oil paint and photographic pictures with just pictures, what changes? Is it still good comedy?

Sorry, I own DSLR and have used many digital cameras with good results, but it just isn't the same thing. It isn't the same workflow and the result is different. What is so irrational about it? The medium can be one part of the art. The feeling it delivers.

Sure, you can use some flashy plugin to turn your digital photos to "oil paintings". Still some people want to buy real oil paintings. Why? Why does that matter to some people? Are they also just irrational, incapable of seeing the picture behind the medium?

You miss my point. The irrationality I wrote of earlier was not the love of photography, or even film, but rather the love of Kodak specifically, and the thinking that the death of Kodak would be the death of photography in general.

As to your using oils and paintings as a parallism, it does not apply because there are many companies that make the oil paints, not just one.

I realize nobody can give the look of specific Kodak films, but if there is a will, there is a way to use another film, tweek the development, the printing processes. Films can come and go, but it should be the photography that will stay with us, through whatever products, chemicals, etc that are available today.

A true lover of art, should not care so much who made the "paint"....the pictures (photographs) should be the focus.

Photo Engineer
08-28-2012, 07:19 PM
It does not look like God chasing that kitten!

PE

zsas
08-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Silver glow - although your analogy is fair, in other art communities, when XYZ Manufacturing stops making Z material (eg some kind of oil paint, or a color of stained glass) there are usually a few other makers. With film/paper, gosh, we are taking a mere few....

Plus, when a manufacturer did announce a discontinuance of a paint, um, just check out this thread from our fellow art brethren at the forum wetcanvas.com:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1172272

Photo Engineer
08-28-2012, 07:48 PM
The use of Cadmium Yellow pigments is more akin to the use of Potassium Thiocyanate used in some alternate photographic processes. It is not a good choice and people are working to eliminate both chemicals. It does not eliminate the process however.

PE

zsas
08-28-2012, 07:53 PM
Hey PE my point is to talk about how folks are affected by discountinuances in other artistic mediums (thread three at the above makes my point), reguardless of the cause of such discountinuance. I don't wa t to derail this to discuss cadmium or eye of newt....

Allen Friday
08-28-2012, 07:54 PM
I'm screwed. I use Kodak Tri-X for my 8x10 negatives and cadmium yellow in my gum prints.

Photo Engineer
08-28-2012, 07:59 PM
Hey PE my point is to talk about how folks are affected by discountinuances in other artistic mediums (thread three at the above makes my point), reguardless of the cause of such discountinuance. I don't wa t to derail this to discuss cadmium or eye of newt....

Sorry;

I had forgotten that most did not know that Kodak struggled to eliminate Cadmium and Mercury from products in the '60s. Several major products were discontinued as a result and new products took their place, but production continued nevertheless.

Pe

Sirius Glass
08-28-2012, 08:00 PM
If Kodak film becomes unavailable, how will I go Kodaking with Ilford HP5+?

zsas
08-28-2012, 08:07 PM
Sorry;

I had forgotten that most did not know that Kodak struggled to eliminate Cadmium and Mercury from products in the '60s. Several major products were discontinued as a result and new products took their place, but production continued nevertheless.

Pe

Ahhhh noble mentor, great point! Folks move on!

Yep, back to the one trying to be so black and white, we all are entitled to be sad, annoyed, etc.

Not sure anyone is saying s/he is walking alway from photography because of Kodak

I guess I am guilty of falling prey to that person's trap....I won't make that mistake again...

RattyMouse
08-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Sorry;

I had forgotten that most did not know that Kodak struggled to eliminate Cadmium and Mercury from products in the '60s. Several major products were discontinued as a result and new products took their place, but production continued nevertheless.

Pe


PE, your knowledge of Kodak is awesome. I wish we had a FUJIFILM counterpart to you here. The history of these two film companies is always fascinating to me.

Photo Engineer
08-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Maybe Fuji cares less than Kodak does?

Think about that!

Regarding my comments, thanks but I was involved in the Cd, Hg replacement program.

PE

Brian C. Miller
08-28-2012, 11:48 PM
You miss my point. The irrationality I wrote of earlier was not the love of photography, or even film, but rather the love of Kodak specifically, and the thinking that the death of Kodak would be the death of photography in general.

The problem with the "death" of Kodak ("I'm not dead!" "I'm getting better!" "I feel happy!") is that the number of good alternatives dwindles drastically. For instance, Fujifilm discontinued 120-size Acros 400, seen as a wide favorite. The Japanese government banned a chemical required for its manufacture, and Fujifilm decided that since it would never see a return on investment for the reformulation, it dropped the film. Kodak produces two 400-speed films, and Ilford produces two. If there's no more Kodak, then there's just two 400 speed films on the market, from one manufacturer.

What does that mean? Each of the films has certain characteristics. Acros has freakin' amazing reciprocity correction, while Tri-X and HP5 need extreme correction. You see, it's not just about grain, it's also what product can allow the photographer to do. And how about fast color film? Without Kodak, there's no high-speed (ISO 800) color film in 120, and Fuji would be the only source for any color film.

Sure, we'll all soldier along without Kodak, but personally, I'd rather have some quality choice. My current stockpile is Kodak E-6, which is quite defintely discontinued, and there's absolutely no chance we'll see that manufactured again.

Ken Nadvornick
08-29-2012, 01:01 AM
If Kodak film becomes unavailable, how will I go Kodaking with Ilford HP5+?

You'll just have to start Harmanizing with a different film...

Ken

Henning Serger
08-29-2012, 04:50 AM
PE,

Do you know how the remaining Kodak coating machine compares in size with those at Inoviscoat and at China Lucky which are apparently running now mainly on non silver halide coating?


Hello Alan,

the coating machine at InovisCoat ( www.inoviscoat.de ) is one of the former coating machines from the Agfa plant in Leverkusen, Germany.This machine was moved from Leverkusen to Monheim. It has been modernised and downscaled. The coating width is now 108 cm. On this machine the current Adox MCC and MCP papers are coated.
The InovisCoat staff is all former Agfa Leverkusen engineers and technicians.

Due to Robert L. Shanebrook's excellent book "Making Kodak Film" (highly recommended!) the width of the coating machine in building 38 at Kodak Park is 54 inches = 137,16 cm.
Length of master rolls is one or two miles (dependant on what is needed).

Best regards,
Henning

walsh
08-29-2012, 06:26 AM
The following is from a UK supplier in regard to the sale



Just some clarification on the Kodak announcement - for sale is the consumer film business and photographic paper. Pro film (Portra, Ektar, B&W) and Motion picture are not for sale.

Kodak have agreements in place with the major Hollywood studios to supply motion picture film until 2015 at which point then it becomes a point of discussion and negotiation again. Stills is coated on back of the MP so you can guarantee supply of Portra, Ektar, B&W for some time to come. And then there is always the possibility that the marketing and distribution will be sold to a third party, with Kodak making it as master roll. Any number of possibilities.

Currently we see a very strong growth in pro-film, particularly colour, as professionals, particularly wedding photographers are shooting more film to try and differentiate themselves in the crowded market place. This is a trend started in the US and, as with all photographic trends, especially wedding, finds it's way over here.


I thought all photographic film was included?

georg16nik
08-29-2012, 07:15 AM
The following is from a UK supplier in regard to the sale




Originally Posted by AgPhotographic
Just some clarification on the Kodak announcement - for sale is the consumer film business and photographic paper. Pro film (Portra, Ektar, B&W) and Motion picture are not for sale.

Kodak have agreements in place with the major Hollywood studios to supply motion picture film until 2015 at which point then it becomes a point of discussion and negotiation again. Stills is coated on back of the MP so you can guarantee supply of Portra, Ektar, B&W for some time to come. And then there is always the possibility that the marketing and distribution will be sold to a third party, with Kodak making it as master roll. Any number of possibilities.

Currently we see a very strong growth in pro-film, particularly colour, as professionals, particularly wedding photographers are shooting more film to try and differentiate themselves in the crowded market place. This is a trend started in the US and, as with all photographic trends, especially wedding, finds it's way over here.

I thought all photographic film was included?

Thanks for sharing, walsh!
The first piece of solid and not self contradicting info, after so much pages :D

Diapositivo
08-29-2012, 08:07 AM
The information given by AgPhotographic is wrong.
A spokeswoman for Kodak has said, in this thread, that professional still film is part of the sale. This was given as an answer to a specific question, and is more reliable than what AgPhotographic says.

The misunderstanding is probably born from the expression "consumer film" (on sale) and "commercial film" (not on sale).
The person speaking on behalf of Kodak has clarified that "commercial" film means "motion picture film" and "consumer still film" also encompasses "professional" still film as far as this sale is concerned.

The original press release by Kodak, linked in this thread, was ambiguous under this respect as the terms "commercial film" and "consumer film" would be (mis)understood, by the majority of photographers, the way AgPhotographic did.

The ambiguity raised the question and the question obtained an answer.

So the distilled final incontrovertible you-can-bet-your-balls-upon truth is: all Kodak still film is on sale.