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View Full Version : It's official, Kodak is selling its film business.



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Prof_Pixel
08-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Not zero but maybe not as good as my chance of winning the MegaMillions Lottery.

BrianShaw
08-30-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm betting on flaming monkeys!

BrianShaw
08-30-2012, 04:42 PM
p.s. I'm afraid of monkeys, apes and peoples who act like them. Now I'll have nightmares. Gee thanks Roger.

Roger Cole
08-30-2012, 04:59 PM
Sorry Brian. ;)

Kevin Kehler
08-30-2012, 05:16 PM
I'm betting on flaming monkeys!

I never bet against flaming monkeys.

lxdude
08-30-2012, 05:43 PM
I'm afraid of monkeys, apes and peoples who act like them.

Then what are you doing here?

BrianShaw
08-30-2012, 06:40 PM
Then what are you doing here?

I close my eyes when walking past mirrors. :laugh:

BrianShaw
08-30-2012, 06:41 PM
I close my eyes when typing or reading forum posts too! :p

lxdude
08-30-2012, 07:42 PM
Aaahh. That explains a lot!
;)

Felinik
08-30-2012, 08:03 PM
Can we please stop this monkey business and get back to topic!

lxdude
08-30-2012, 08:31 PM
I close my eyes when walking past mirrors. :laugh:


Well, that's no reflection on you!

Grain Farmer
08-30-2012, 09:42 PM
I can understand the difficulty of making Kodachrome again as even if they did, the network of labs that could process it is how many? 2? But with their E6 and infrared lines, there's still lots of places all over the world that can do it. It's disappointing that slide film has now been put into only one company's hands for survival.

Even with the quality issues, I personally hope that a Chinese producer could buy out Kodak's stuff and start making some competitively priced E6. I think there's lots of people out there who would love to shoot it, but when it costs an entire day's salary to buy and shoot one roll, it's too much of a luxury.

Photo Engineer
08-30-2012, 09:47 PM
Grain;

Here is a scenario.

Engineer X is retired. He coated EIR. Engineer Y was laid off. He coated E6. Company A made the IR dye and wants $100,000 up front for the dye, and company B made 3 or more critical chemicals for E6. It will cost about $1M to restart under these conditions.

The ROI is $10,000 based on sales at the end of production.

How do you proceed?

PE

mikendawn
08-30-2012, 10:00 PM
I, for one, no offense intended, do not want to see a Chinese company take up the Kodak name.
Look, you guys, no intended attack against the Chinese people, but North America is giving up their economic power to the Chinese. Bell Canada has outsourced their Call Centres to India.. And much of the manufacturing these days is happening in places like China, and Singapore, or Thailand..

China does make some lovely products... But think about this.. What is going to happen when they become an Economic Super Power like the EU and NA.. seriously, what will happen?

North American Jobs will be lost, hundreds of thousands of them. Our economy will become completely crippled... The stress will put diplomatic tensions on a lot of countries... and when all else fails, we could see a massive thrust of anxiety toward the Chinese nation, or other nations like that.

I'm not saying that may happen, but *IS* happening..
We keep outsourcing to places like China, and we're losing our jobs here at home! Why?
So large corporations, like Kodak, can make that extra $0.50 on the dollar..

It has to end! Not trying to make a political statement, but I do not want to see another company, like Kodak, end up in the hands of a foreign company! That is just not right.. we have to keep it where it started.. It doesn't matter if a Canadian or USA company takes it up, but not a foreign company..

my 2 cents worth.. do with it as you will, and please, don't think it's an attack against any Chinese person/people.. it isn't.. We just cannot keep giving away our manufacturing companies!

RattyMouse
08-30-2012, 10:23 PM
Grain;

Here is a scenario.

Engineer X is retired. He coated EIR. Engineer Y was laid off. He coated E6. Company A made the IR dye and wants $100,000 up front for the dye, and company B made 3 or more critical chemicals for E6. It will cost about $1M to restart under these conditions.

The ROI is $10,000 based on sales at the end of production.

How do you proceed?

PE



E6 Shooters really need to rally around behind FUJIFILM and make sure that their ROI is large enough to continue making transparency film.

Grain Farmer
08-30-2012, 11:35 PM
Grain;

Here is a scenario.

Engineer X is retired. He coated EIR. Engineer Y was laid off. He coated E6. Company A made the IR dye and wants $100,000 up front for the dye, and company B made 3 or more critical chemicals for E6. It will cost about $1M to restart under these conditions.

The ROI is $10,000 based on sales at the end of production.

How do you proceed?

PE

I wouldn't obviously. The ROI is way to low. And I agree that the conditions for restarting discontinued film lines in America/Canada make that very unlikely. However, I reckon that the ROI would be much, much higher if E6 was competitively priced, and competitively manufactured. And I think there is a very strong market in China for reasonably priced E6. I also know that the Chinese have the ability to make things at a much lower cost than in North America.

I will continue to shoot and support Fuji E6 films, but I know many people who would love to shoot E6, but simply cannot afford to because it costs upwards of $15 a roll to shoot and develop. That price happens to be close to the average salary in China. Can you honestly imagine spending an entire days salary on one 36 exposure roll of film?

I think having a lower cost option for slide film would bring more people into the fold as an entry point, and thus be more of a boon to Fuji and the film photography movement in the long run when those people who could only afford the cheap stuff, start to make more money, and become more serious, and thus want to experiment with the higher quality Fuji products.

Ken Nadvornick
08-31-2012, 12:31 AM
Here is a scenario.

Engineer X is retired. He coated EIR. Engineer Y was laid off. He coated E6. Company A made the IR dye and wants $100,000 up front for the dye, and company B made 3 or more critical chemicals for E6. It will cost about $1M to restart under these conditions.

The ROI is $10,000 based on sales at the end of production.

How do you proceed?

Treading very lightly here...

You begin the task of rebuilding the film markets that were hobbled by the initial digital wave and, in Kodak's case, ignored by upper management. This will not be easy, but it's not impossible either. In fact, it's already been done by Impossible. Conventional wisdom holds that their market niche—analog instant photography—should have been the "extinctest" of the extinct. The first to go, with the least chance of any to ever come back.

And yet...

Did you see? Today they announced limited first availability of their resurrected 8x10 instant film. It's not peel-apart. It's integral. And it doesn't appear—as do any of their new products—to be anything like the original Polaroid products. Or the even better Fujifilm products. Nevertheless, 250 packs have been allocated for sale in the USA. Wanna' bet how long it takes to sell them out at $189.99 each?

If TIP can rebuild the market for Polaroid camera-compatible instant films with such admittedly sub-par offerings—and they have and are doing quite well, thank you very much—what could a post-Kodak company do with products that are still the best in the world? Actually, the best in the history of the medium?

They would just need to be run by people who really, really wanted to manufacture, market, and sell film products. TIP knows this. Ilford knows this. ADOX knows this. The current Kodak upper management did not know this. Even when their survival as a digital-company-in-waiting was on the line and they just needed the temporary film bucks. They figured instead that blowing up their old film buildings for the nightly news and Wall Street tech analysts was somehow a better road to success.

Your ROI figure of $10,000 is for market conditions in the past. It's why those products are no long made. A post-Kodak needs to (re)create far better market conditions for their future, if they hope to survive. And no one else is going to do that for them. But if they could add two more zeros to that figure, then they could train a new Engineer X. And rehire Engineer Y. And find a way around Companies A&B.

All of the other current survivors have done it. They did it because they had to. And more importantly, because they really, really wanted to...

Ken

Steve Smith
08-31-2012, 02:28 AM
But think about this.. What is going to happen when they become an Economic Super Power like the EU and NA.. seriously, what will happen?!

They already are. We had our turn with the British Empire, then it was the turn of the US, now it's China's turn to be the manufacturing centre of the world. There's nothing you can do about it.


Steve.

mikendawn
08-31-2012, 06:13 AM
Yeah, I know, Steve... I just don't want to see yet another North American company go and turn into a Chinese company..

I can't help but think of a sticker I saw a few years ago...

"Still have a Job? Keep buying Foreign!"...

And that's where we're headed. There was a documentary a couple of years back that I remember watching called "Made In Canada.."
It was about a Canadian family that would only buy things that were, well, "Made in Canada".
They would spend a bit more for items that are Made In Canada, and would have an incredibly difficult time finding items that weren't made in a foreign country.

Of course, the biggest culprit company for this..

Walmart...

Steve Smith
08-31-2012, 06:19 AM
Back in the 1980s a TV news programme did an experiment. One family had to buy British and another had to buy best. Only one item was common to both families and that was a television. No chance of that happening now.


Steve.