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View Full Version : It's official, Kodak is selling its film business.



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chriscrawfordphoto
09-02-2012, 01:23 AM
Just looking at the 招聘 signs on any establishment anywhere that lists the salary right there on the wall and you'll be hard pressed to find a monthly salary higher than 3000, which isn't even $15 a day.

Businesses in China post signs that say how much they pay their employees?

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 05:43 AM
Don't know what kind of expat bubble you're living in but.....

I dont live in a bubble, regardless of how condescending you try to be. I've lived in Shanghai for 3 years, and have worked here for nearly 10. And before that I was coming here for family (my wife of 15 years is Chinese). I've been coming to China more times than I can count since 1995, burning up an entire US expanded passport in less than 1 and a half years during one stint.

You know those Expat compounds where you feel as if you are in suburban America? You know, no Chinese people or Chinese language anywhere? I dont live there. I live in a 99.99% Chinese area. I know of one single other foreigner living in my compound. I have a very good feel for how the locals live here. There's 25 towers in my compound, most over 20 stories. What's in the parking garage? BMW's, Mercedes, Audi's, Porches, and even H2's. No Chinese cars at all. The prices in the local food market are very high. $8 for a box of cereal that's 1/3rd the size you'd find back in the US. Who shops here? Everyone in the neighborhood.

Come by Jinxiu Lu at night on a Friday or Saturday and watch the locals blast down the road in their Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. They do it all the time, winding those engines out like they are an F1 racer. One day someone is going to get killed and I'll have a 12th floor view of the mess.

Sure you can find service people who make barely nothing. That's not mainstream anymore. In 1995 and earlier it was, not now. Anyone with a college education and a real job in Shanghai is making good money. A chemist at my company, younger than me with half the career that I have carries around a $3000 French purse. Another chemist, more in line with my level of experience bought her THIRD house last year, before the government stopped such things.

China is an incredibly diverse country. Way so more than the US for sure. Some are poor. Some make money but save like my grand mother, and some splurge like crazy. There are a LOT of people who spend a LOT of money here.

Now, to bring this back on topic. I just bought my first ever roll of slide film. 25 years taking pictures, I never once shot a roll of slide. Now I want to try it. I bought 20 rolls of Acros today and 1 roll of Provia. We'll see how it goes.

EDIT: I just found an interest stat (from 2011) about Shanghai:

"The average price of Shanghai’s new homes shot to a seven-month high of more than 24,000 yuan (US$3,626) per square meters last week even as the government reiterated that it will still continue to tame prices despite unveiling policies that don’t seem to be working."

For those poor at math, that's $362,600 for a 100 sq meter home. The home I rent is 220 sq meters. Every unit in my building, and most buildings in my area are at least 150 sq meters.

http://cnbusinessnews.com/new-home-average-price-rises-in-shanghai/#axzz25JAoypqI

MaximusM3
09-02-2012, 08:33 AM
How is the movie industry reacting to this latest round of news?

Grain Farmer
09-02-2012, 09:24 AM
I dont live in a bubble, regardless of how condescending you try to be.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so condescending but when someone makes totally untrue statements like this:
You would have to go way out into the countryside to find someone living on $15/day.

I have to refute them.

Do you honestly think that the place where you live, where everyone is racing around in Ferraris and lining up to buy $8 boxes of cereal is truly representative of the majority of Shanghai? 23 million people all live like that? There's many wealthy people here, I will agree with you there. But they don't make up the majority of the people. Not by a long shot. And the rest of China is far poorer than Shanghai. Laobaixing make of the majority of the population, and I think that targeting them with cheaper film products could be a good strategy.

I'm glad you've started shooting slide film. I hope your first roll goes well for you. Maybe someday I will see you out shooting the streets of Shanghai. Are there any good labs over there in Pudong?

Grain Farmer
09-02-2012, 09:27 AM
Businesses in China post signs that say how much they pay their employees?

Yeah they're everywhere. There seems to be a labour shortage.

Photo Engineer
09-02-2012, 09:33 AM
I believe I had read here somewhere that Kodak plans for coating about one year ahead of time...I wonder what they have planned for a year from now. Will they still plan as if the sale doesn't go through?....I also saw something somewhere with a quote from Perez that there should be no interruption in product supply- That should be interesting.

Kodak film making plans far into the future. At one time, they scheduled up to 5 years in advance so that they could obtain the lowest prices on Silver and other chemicals.

PE

Todd Foster
09-02-2012, 01:09 PM
What about the Agfa machine now at Inoviscoat mentioned much earlier on this thread? Adox black and white papers are made on it, including the amazing MCC 110 VCFB material, presumably for a good profit. Quality IMO is equal to or better than earlier, now extinct premium B&W papers.
www.inoviscoat.de

I'm wondering if they couldn't make film on this machine if the opportunity was right. Is a different coating machine needed for paper vs film? If this machine (or other smaller machines at other companies) can coat both film and paper, mightn't this dual capacity be a saving economic grace? (Many film users like myself will want to make prints into their old age, even if they aren't using much film anymore.) Maybe this is already about to happen? Maybe they're waiting for the Kodak dust to settle? Hope springs eternal...

There are producers of artists mediums, materials and paints that have survived for decades in the small world market at the high end of quality. I'm hoping that film and paper will fall into this specialist niche market and continue to be available indefinitely. Manufacturing would be for the small world market of dedicated uses who will pay the much higher prices necessary to keep it going. Just like what I'm doing with Adox MCC 110 paper via Freestyle? It's very pricy, but I'm glad to have it and will keep buying it.

Meanwhile, we have lost the immense snap shooter base and much of the commercial photography business. The huge volume of the movie industry and most of the remaining commercial users will surely be next to go away. No more subsidies, no more riding on the back of these whales. Looks like it's going to be nothing but a devotee, artist's and serious craftsman's market when these are extinct. I can gladly live with that, if that's what's to be and materials continue to be made.

Thanks for the indispensable factual contributions of Photo Engineer and other insiders on this thread.
Todd F.

Ken Nadvornick
09-02-2012, 04:10 PM
The key thing to remember here is that Kodak is marketing both Kodak still film and the Kodak still film customer to the potential buyers, so we are all literally in the spotlight together at the moment.

So my feeling is lets not blow the chance we have all been talking about for years to get Kodak film in the hands of an eager new owner that could very well want to keep the products in our hands for longer than we thought possible.

Keep buying it, shooting it and for god's sake, keep the vibe as positive as you can, I am going to.

Maybe the chances of getting Kodak film into the hands of that eager new owner might be enhanced if everyone regularly posted to this long-time APUG thread:

What films did you shoot most recently? (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/104764-what-films-did-you-shoot-most-recently-part-2-a.html)

And posted regardless of which brand they used, just to highlight the overall market potential.

Ken

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 05:51 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to be so condescending but when someone makes totally untrue statements like this:

I have to refute them.

Do you honestly think that the place where you live, where everyone is racing around in Ferraris and lining up to buy $8 boxes of cereal is truly representative of the majority of Shanghai? 23 million people all live like that? There's many wealthy people here, I will agree with you there. But they don't make up the majority of the people. Not by a long shot. And the rest of China is far poorer than Shanghai. Laobaixing make of the majority of the population, and I think that targeting them with cheaper film products could be a good strategy.

I'm glad you've started shooting slide film. I hope your first roll goes well for you. Maybe someday I will see you out shooting the streets of Shanghai. Are there any good labs over there in Pudong?

The average home price in Shanghai is somewhere around 200,000 dollars. People who make $15/day dont buy $200,000 homes. Look at the number of homes in Shanghai and guess if there are more people or less people who can afford homes.

I have not found any labs in Pudong. I use Mr. Film's taobao store. VERY happy with the results. Prices are excellent, processing and shipping very very fast.

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Kodak film making plans far into the future. At one time, they scheduled up to 5 years in advance so that they could obtain the lowest prices on Silver and other chemicals.

PE

One of the customers I have to visit a lot makes magnesium parts for the auto industry. While there I see truck after truck bringing in pallets of magnesium bars. I bet Kodak had the same thing, except with silver!! I wonder how much shrinkage there was with people grabbing bars of silver!!

Photo Engineer
09-02-2012, 06:21 PM
There was no theft at the EK silver making facility. They did make their own Silver Nitrate from large bars of Silver, and this prevented theft.

PE

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 07:51 PM
There was no theft at the EK silver making facility. They did make their own Silver Nitrate from large bars of Silver, and this prevented theft.

PE


Come on PE! Kodak did a lot but did not eliminate the human condition. Surely some Kodak person shoved a few bars of silver down their pants!!

Photo Engineer
09-02-2012, 07:59 PM
Employees were weighed at the star and end of a day! Bars were weighted and counted at every shift change!

PE

richard ide
09-02-2012, 08:00 PM
The bars probably weighed 1000 oz. All stores that made reinforced underwear were monitored. AFAIK in the 1980's Kodak was using 125 million ounces of silver per year.

zsas
09-02-2012, 08:40 PM
WOW, that is roughly $10 billion dollars of silver purchased from 1980-1989! I took the avg price per ounce per year times 125,000,000

OZ Amt
1980 $16.3 $2,037,500,000
1981 $8.4 $1,050,000,000
1982 $10.6 $1,325,000,000
1983 $9.1 $1,137,500,000
1984 $6.7 $837,500,000
1985 $5.9 $737,500,000
1986 $5.3 $662,500,000
1987 $6.7 $837,500,000
1988 $6.1 $762,500,000
1989 $5.5 $687,500,000
Total $10,075,000,000

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Employees were weighed at the star and end of a day! Bars were weighted and counted at every shift change!

PE

That's awesome PE! Kodak was clearly on top of their game. If only the CEO could be watched so!

RattyMouse
09-02-2012, 09:26 PM
The bars probably weighed 1000 oz. All stores that made reinforced underwear were monitored. AFAIK in the 1980's Kodak was using 125 million ounces of silver per year.

Re-enforced underwear???? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Michael W
09-02-2012, 10:38 PM
One of the customers I have to visit a lot makes magnesium parts for the auto industry. While there I see truck after truck bringing in pallets of magnesium bars. I bet Kodak had the same thing, except with silver!! I wonder how much shrinkage there was with people grabbing bars of silver!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ6w1esVcoY

Have you seen this 1958 Kodak documentary?
At 6.40 it shows the goods train delivery of silver being unloaded. 14 tons a week of close to 100% pure silver. The video is in Dutch with English subtitles - a project done by APUG members a few years ago.

cmacd123
09-06-2012, 11:20 AM
This one just pop into my Mail box.. KODAK is hanging on to film manufacturing! and is exploring other related products like Fuji and AGFA have done for years...

(I see that the Link I was going to post has a link to my personal info, so I will just copy the text)

Next Steps to our Future Success
by Kim Snyder

Last week, Kodak announced its next steps in emerging from Chapter 11 as a company primarily focused on commercial, packaging, and functional printing solutions as well as enterprise services. The company has now initiated a sales process for its market-leading Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses.

So what does this mean for Entertainment Imaging and its motion picture film products and services? For clarity, I can assure you that Kodak's motion picture films are not part of this announcement and will remain with the company.

Kodak will continue to manufacture and distribute its quality line of motion picture film products. As a matter of fact, all film manufacturing will actually stay with Kodak, including that of consumer and professional still film. We will continue providing our entertainment customers with the products and support they have come to depend upon from Kodak.

In addition to manufacturing film, we are pursuing potential vertical markets that will utilize our film technologies for a variety of alternative and exciting products. This includes Functional Printing applications as well as Thin Film and Specialty Chemicals growth opportunities.

And speaking of new opportunities, based on market demand, we just announced a new color asset protection film and will be adding a black-and-white separation film to the portfolio later this year.

As I'm sure you know, Kodak has worked in partnership with Hollywood Studios for many years. We're very happy to see them show their confidence in the Kodak brand by recently signing multi year agreements with the company.

Kodak's plan for the future has a sharper focus now, and as part of that plan, our market-leading motion picture products will continue to provide the innovation and creative choices that the production and post community need.

I am happy to be able to share this news and to take this opportunity to thank all our motion picture customers who have remained so loyal throughout the last months. As Kodak continues to evolve, we are pleased to continue to offer the technology and the products that have supported this industry for over a century. As always, our global sales force is available to answer any questions you may have or to help meet your production needs.

Thank you.

Kim Snyder
President and General Manager
Entertainment and Commercial Films Group
Vice President of Eastman Kodak Company

cmacd123
09-06-2012, 11:25 AM
OK this is the page from the Kodak site...

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/The_Storyboard/4294970036/index.htm