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View Full Version : It's official, Kodak is selling its film business.



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Diapositivo
08-24-2012, 08:16 AM
Last year I switched dentist. My former dentist - a very good one but not near where I live - used a traditional X-Ray machine. He developed the tiny film in a machine which he had in the studio itself. He inserted his hands in some sort of light-tight bellow and made the "baths" in there. In less than 5 minutes, IIRC, the X-ray was ready for the light board. He didn't have an orthopanoramic X-Ray machine, just the normal one which can take pictures of 1, or 2, maybe 3 teeth. The entire process was I'd say very fast and practical.

My present dentist - near where I live, I walk to its practice - is a technology geek. He's got a digital X-Ray and he's got a laser drill as well (that's impressive. Star Wars on your molar). When I asked him why did he install a digital X-Ray machine IIRC he answered digital was faster and more practical and maybe he added digital requires a lesser dose of X-ray.

In hospital practice I suppose digital X-ray is practical because the patient file is now mainly digital. A digital X-ray "matches" with a digital TAC or a digital echography and all the other information. Saves cabinet space and makes all patient file more transmissible. I presume they can also be faked easily in case of judiciary enquiry ;)

RattyMouse
08-24-2012, 08:28 AM
That's another good point. Lower doses of radiation. That alone is enough for me to avoid traditional X-rays.

dnjl
08-24-2012, 08:30 AM
A friend of mine is studying radiology; they're taught the analogue way and do everything with traditional x-ray film. We don't live in a developing country either.

RattyMouse
08-24-2012, 08:34 AM
A friend of mine is studying radiology; they're taught the analogue way and do everything with traditional x-ray film. We don't live in a developing country either.

Shanghai China, where I live, has digital X-Rays.

Rafal Lukawiecki
08-24-2012, 08:43 AM
@Simon Galley from Ilford:

If I promise to buy more HP5+, will you buy Kodak for us, please?

BrianShaw
08-24-2012, 08:44 AM
Agreed.

It is simply about reaching the needed threshold for the job at hand.

One of the biggest problems of many systems for me, is that there is too many ways to manipulate data and more detail than necessary becomes required input. I'm not being specific to photography but the logic applies there too.

My dentist converted to digital Xray... and he diagnosed a cracked tooth that he wouldn't have been able to with film due to the cool software manipulations. What's more, he could email the digital images (xray and intraoral digital pictures) to the insurance compnay for approval... making it possible to fix the problem before it got to a bigger problem. So what is the "needed threshold"? I totally agree, though, that sometimes the obvious threshold is exceeded just because it can be done. This is not the case with digital dentistry in my opinion, though. Digital dentistry seems to increase the quality of health care.

Steve Smith
08-24-2012, 08:44 AM
In hospital practice I suppose digital X-ray is practical because the patient file is now mainly digital.

When I have my teeth photographed by traditional X-ray, the dental nurse processes the film and has it scanned in a matter of minutes. I get to see it on the computer screen whilst still sitting in the chair. And they get to save it in a digital file with all of my other data.


What's more, he could email the digital images (xray and intraoral digital pictures) to the insurance compnay for approval.

Luckilly, we don't have to bother with that nonsense!

And I must post a link to this from The Simpsons before someone else does: http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/thebigbookofbritishsmiles_thumb.png?w=582


Steve.

BrianShaw
08-24-2012, 08:48 AM
... so can they do software "enhancements" to that scanned image?

RattyMouse
08-24-2012, 08:57 AM
When I have my teeth photographed by traditional X-ray, the dental nurse processes the film and has it scanned in a matter of minutes. I get to see it on the computer screen whilst still sitting in the chair. And they get to save it in a digital file with all of my other data.



Luckilly, we don't have to bother with that nonsense!

And I must post a link to this from The Simpsons before someone else does: http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/thebigbookofbritishsmiles_thumb.png?w=582


Steve.

There are people alive because of the advances in X-rays due to it going digital. You can be against progress all you want, but the time may come when you will quickly backpedal and demand a digital image so that your doctor has the best information available.

Diapositivo
08-24-2012, 09:11 AM
And I must post a link to this from The Simpsons before someone else does: http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/thebigbookofbritishsmiles_thumb.png?w=582


I also feel tempted to post a very famous X-ray which was certainly taken during the analogue age. Very famous.

MDR
08-24-2012, 09:15 AM
The digital X-ray, MRI and CT's are often printed onto traditional X-ray etc films for archival reasons. The workflow is often digital pictures > view on screen and enhancement > optical printer onto analogue film. A small dentist can't always afford this workflow big Hospitals, aircraft manufacturers etc... can and do.

Dominik

ic-racer
08-24-2012, 09:23 AM
That's great for cheap dentists like yours, but for patients, that's bad news. Digital X-ray images are manipulated in all kinds of ways by software that dramatically increase the diagnostic value that they provide. Overlays, expansions, rotations, image adjustments, the sky is the limit with today's computer hardware.

I would not step foot in any doctor or dentist office that didnt use the most modern technology to care for their patients. Hell, we pay enough for it.

My experience is the digital 'enhancements' produce more artifact and false-positive findings.
Conclusion from the following paper: "Observer enhanced Sidexis [digital dental] images exhibited a statistically significant lower diagnostic accuracy than the film images."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296430

RattyMouse
08-24-2012, 09:38 AM
My experience is the digital 'enhancements' produce more artifact and false-positive findings.
Conclusion from the following paper: "Observer enhanced Sidexis [digital dental] images exhibited a statistically significant lower diagnostic accuracy than the film images."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296430

2005??? Why not find something more recent? Or has digital gotten better?

Thomas Bertilsson
08-24-2012, 09:40 AM
My experience is the digital 'enhancements' produce more artifact and false-positive findings.
Conclusion from the following paper: "Observer enhanced Sidexis [digital dental] images exhibited a statistically significant lower diagnostic accuracy than the film images."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296430

My dentist, who likes and embraces new technology, complains that the new digital X-ray pictures are more difficult to read.
There is no question, however, that once the initial investment in equipment is done, running costs are lower, and profit is higher.

cdkrenzer
08-24-2012, 09:43 AM
So why is Kodak Professional on Facebook saying the opposite?

"Kodak Professional: Yes, the full still film line, including PORTRA, EKTAR and TRI-X falls within the Personal Imaging Business."

https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional

I tried to post last night and hopefully it gets cleared - so I'm sorry for the lag. I'm Colleen Krenzer and I work with the PR agency for Kodak's film and paper business and will try to answer questions people have as this process moves forward. All the still photography films are part of the sale. When Kodak says commercial films, it means films that are used in things like aerial, industrial and printed circuit boards.

That said, manufacturing on all products continues, including those ones included in the proposed sale.

BrianShaw
08-24-2012, 09:44 AM
My dentist, who likes and embraces new technology, complains that the new digital X-ray pictures are more difficult to read.

Mine did too, until he bought new monitors.

BrianShaw
08-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Thanks Colleen... and welcome to APUG. This is really a nice bunch of people.

lxdude
08-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Welcome, Colleen.

Ken Nadvornick
08-24-2012, 10:01 AM
I'm Colleen Krenzer and I work with the PR agency for Kodak's film and paper business and will try to answer questions people have as this process moves forward.

Welcome to APUG. Glad to see you took Dan's suggestion. The people over here are a tougher audience, but by and large they mean well. Thanks in advance for any additional clarity you may be able to bring to this situation. The more facts people have, the less rampant and unfounded speculation there will be.

Ken

Thomas Bertilsson
08-24-2012, 10:10 AM
Mine did too, until he bought new monitors.

High end monitors at that. But whatever. Let's talk about Kodak.