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View Full Version : New at Photokina 2012: ADOX SILVERMAX 35mm film 135/36



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ADOX Fotoimpex
09-20-2012, 01:11 PM
It's 125 micron
This is corect.
I got mixed up with 135/36 ;-)

If Ilford was using the same base for their 3200 Rollfilm it could be because this product has only limited shelve life.
If you roll 125 micron triacetate wthout anti curling layer on the backside onto a 120 core and keep it wound for over a year you expirience terrible curl of the film after development. At least that´s the expirience we have.
With the 3200 ASA product this either might not have occured because of a fast supply chain or because Ilford uses a kind of double sided substrated TAC with NC on both formats. If this was obtainable (double side substrated TAC) it could actually be something interesting to look at for future small volume runs. For Silvermax this option did not exist as the old stock base we used up was only substrated on one side.

Some of you people really have very deep inside knowledge.
It´s a pleasure to hang out here but now I have Photokina meetings again ;-)

Mirko

PS 1.000 rolls of Silvermax have been sold the past 3 days. Now we are almost out. We limit sales now to 1 roll per person at the trade show booth.

pdeeh
09-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Is there any information about when this film might be available in the UK?
(ordering from Fotoimpex.de is rather expensive once surcharges and delivery are factored in)

laser
09-20-2012, 02:50 PM
This calls for a little math.

They sold 1000 rolls and are almost out.

1000 rolls (.555ft2/roll) is 450 linear feet of film 4 feet wide.

Let's assume they coat very, very slowly say 100ft/minute. That is 4.5 minutes of coating time.


Is this a business?

zsas
09-20-2012, 02:56 PM
I believe Mirko means that he brought 1,000 rolls of film to Photokina to sell and have almost sold out of the 1,000 rolls they made avail for purchase at the camera show....

michaelbsc
09-20-2012, 02:59 PM
I believe Mirko means that he brought 1,000 rolls of film to Photokina to sell and have almost sold out of the 1,000 rolls they made avail for purchase at the camera show....

That was my impression, too. I doubt they only coated enough to make 1K rolls. I can't imagine you could fire up the line for that small a volume. If you could then by golly I'm gonna start me a boutique film business.

ath
09-20-2012, 03:03 PM
Mirko said that they expect the coated batch to last 5 years.

Ken Nadvornick
09-20-2012, 05:53 PM
This calls for a little math.

They sold 1000 rolls and are almost out.

1000 rolls (.555ft2/roll) is 450 linear feet of film 4 feet wide.

Let's assume they coat very, very slowly say 100ft/minute. That is 4.5 minutes of coating time.


Is this a business?

Perhaps not for the Kodak of old. The one depicted in your excellent book. (Which I purchased.)

But Mirko has said directly that his intentionally small factory "can make quantities of a few thousand rolls of film at about 3-5 USD per roll", with some restrictions. (See his post here (http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1268761).) This is likely a glimpse into the longer term future of film manufacturing. And certainly a glimpse into the future of any so-called artisan films.

Ken

laser
09-20-2012, 07:10 PM
I, like most AgX photographers, am trying to determine if film will be manufactured 10 years from now and beyond.

I was hoping that Mirko was a possibility. I didn't fully realize that this was a one time effort that is not sustainable.


I was also hoping they would substantiate the claims with a simple D LogE curve. I don't know how they can make the claims without showing a characteristic curve.

Trond
09-21-2012, 12:24 AM
[QUOTE=laser;1396886
I was hoping that Mirko was a possibility. I didn't fully realize that this was a one time effort that is not sustainable.
[/QUOTE]

Silvermax is possibly a one time effort, because they apparently are using up left over clear acetate base from Agfa. They have other films in the pipeline, which they have stated several times already.

Trond

thomas l
09-22-2012, 11:39 AM
Dominik, sorry, but I can't find any statement on the Maco website and the RPX data sheets that RPX is identical to the Kentmere films.

Best regards,
Henning

Rollei RPX and Kentmere Films are the same, everybody knows it. That the RPX was a new film was one of the (last) fairy tales of Hartmuth Schroeder in red and blue letters..... Maco now officialy mentions itself that it is the same film.

But Silvermax is really a new film, I already ordered one. I liked Scala very much, so let's see how it will be in Wehner process. The reports are sounding very good

Thomas

georg16nik
09-23-2012, 03:45 AM
SILVERMAX in SILVERMAX Developer characteristic curve:
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Premium/SILVERMAX/files/blocks_image_2_1.jpg
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Premium/SILVERMAX/SMAX_index.html

zsas
09-24-2012, 08:16 PM
^So what does it mean? I've never understood how to read these charts?

Rudeofus
09-25-2012, 01:57 AM
The chart says lists zone exposure in its x-axis and film density in its y-axis. This means if you expose a section of this film at zone 8, you can expect a density of 1.29 over b+f, assuming of course, that you develop exactly like it was done when this chart was made. So what is zone 8? It appears to be 7 stops above the light density which creates about 0.1 density over b+f.

What do I read from this chart? From zone 1 to zone 9 this film has more or less a straight curve which then flattens considerably. Either a compensating film developer was used for this chart, or the film uses DIR couplers to achieve its 14 stop range, or both.

Henning Serger
09-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Rollei RPX and Kentmere Films are the same, everybody knows it.

Hello Thomas,

no, they are definitely not the same films, but different emulsions. If you compare them directly side by side you will see it. Have you done that? No, you have not.
Independant developer manufacturers like Wolfgang Moersch ( www.moersch-photochemie.de ) and Heribert Schain from Spur (www.spur-photo.com ) have intensively tested both the two Kentmere and the two RPX films and very clearly say that the emulsions are different (and therefore also different developing times in the Moersch and Spur developers).
Another friend of mine, Ralf Sänger (you know, the author of several articles in the German print magazine "Schwarzweiss" ) has also tested these films in direct comparison and has confirmed the results from Moersch and Spur that the films are different.

The RPX films are coated by Harman/Ilfordphoto.
But as Simon Galley always very clearly has said, they will not offer their original Ilford and Kentmere products to other companies.
But they do manufacturing for other companies with different products.



But Silvermax is really a new film, I already ordered one. I liked Scala very much, so let's see how it will be in Wehner process. The reports are sounding very good


I've already used this film in the Wehner process and yes, the results are excellent (so are the results of Scala 200X, Foma R100, Agfa Copex Rapid and the Retro 80S in Klaus Wehner's reversal process).
I've been at Photokina and have talked directly to Mirko Böddecker and Klaus Wehner.
I will give you further details in a separate Photokina report in the next days. Stay tuned :).

Best regards,
Henning

Thomas Bertilsson
09-25-2012, 12:28 PM
And here is the Silvermax curve superimposed on the APX 100 curve. It seems almost identical, except for the shadows. But the Silvermax curve isn't complete. It's cut off before the toe, so it's difficult to tell.


SILVERMAX in SILVERMAX Developer characteristic curve:
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Premium/SILVERMAX/files/blocks_image_2_1.jpg
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Premium/SILVERMAX/SMAX_index.html

Flux
09-26-2012, 12:21 AM
I've already used this film in the Wehner process and yes, the results are excellent (so are the results of Scala 200X, Foma R100, Agfa Copex Rapid and the Retro 80S in Klaus Wehner's reversal process).
I've been at Photokina and have talked directly to Mirko Böddecker and Klaus Wehner.
I will give you further details in a separate Photokina report in the next days. Stay tuned :).

Best regards,
Henning

Hello Henning,
do you have some samples of your photos online? Would be nice to see how photod from this film look like. How were you able to shoot this film without knowing the curve anyway? ;)

Looking forward to your Photokina report.

Henning Serger
09-26-2012, 09:15 AM
Hello Henning,
do you have some samples of your photos online? Would be nice to see how photod from this film look like.

No sorry, I have no photos online. Well, honestly, I don't think we can really evaluate the characteristics of a film by looking at the pictures online, on computer monitors. It doesn't make much sense.
To see what the (a) film can deliver you have to look at real prints, or in this case also at the BW positives / slides on a lightbox and in projection.

Best regards,
Henning

P.S. I have some pictures of the Wehner reversal process online (and Scala), but both are with different films, not the Silvermax.

wblynch
09-26-2012, 01:52 PM
No sorry, I have no photos online. Well, honestly, I don't think we can really evaluate the characteristics of a film by looking at the pictures online, on computer monitors. It doesn't make much sense.
To see what the (a) film can deliver you have to look at real prints, or in this case also at the BW positives / slides on a lightbox and in projection.

Best regards,
Henning

P.S. I have some pictures of the Wehner reversal process online (and Scala), but both are with different films, not the Silvermax.

But can you send 10,000 sample prints to us for evaluation? I would be happy to receive one. :)


Thank you.

Flux
09-26-2012, 05:00 PM
I don't think we can really evaluate the characteristics of a film by looking at the pictures online, on computer monitors. It doesn't make much sense.


You also got the Wehner pictures online. It is not good for evaluating, but good enough to get a first impression.
Would you give me the link to the Wehner pictures? I am very interested.

Henning Serger
09-27-2012, 03:31 AM
You also got the Wehner pictures online. It is not good for evaluating, but good enough to get a first impression.
Would you give me the link to the Wehner pictures? I am very interested.

O.k., o.k., you have all won....;).
But really, it is only for a first impression. If I look at these slides on a lighttable and especially in projection, it is a completely different world compared to the very low quality on the computer monitor.

The following shots are all made on Rollei Retro 80S as an infrared film, using a Heliopan RG 715 filter (this filter blocks light up to 715 nanometer).
All shots developed by Klaus Wehner in his reversal process (a very sophisticated 20 step process).
Klaus Wehner has modified his reversal process for Retro 80S a bit for even surpassing the excellent results when using this film as an IR film. So he offers reversal processing of Retro 80S as a normal film, and additionally he offers a slightly modified process for 80S as an IR film ( he is a perfectionist concerning reversal quality).
The Dmax of his Retro 80S slides is in the 3,80-4,00 logD range.

Here are some test shots (no art....):

http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RR80S_03_4000ppi.jpg

http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RR80S_04_4000ppi.jpg

http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RR80S_05_4000ppi.jpg

And here two shots which I have with full intent underexposed to get a "moonshine effect":

http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RR80S_01_4000ppi.jpg

http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RR80S_02_4000ppi.jpg

I am using Retro 80S and Superpan 200 for years now as infrared films with a Heliopan RG 715 filter. The results have always been excellent (the IR sensivity is on the same level as the Rollei IR film). I've always got an excellent Wood effect with brillant white with the foliage. The characteristic curve of these films is flattening a bit in the highlight zones (VII - X). Therefore you can even intensify the Wood effect by a light overexposure (and without 'burned highlights') to get an even more brillant white if you want that.
BW infrared slides look outstanding in projection. The brillant white of the foliage is really shining. It is impossible to get that stunning look with prints. As much as I love making my own prints in my darkroom, but with BW IR I prefer BW reversal, it is a league of its own.

Best regards,
Henning

P.S. Thanks to Dominique Ventzke for making the scans.