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MattKing
02-22-2013, 05:55 PM
So can we get together and have them make some more paper and chemistry to print chromes again?

Also, anyone know if Kodak still has the capability to produce Verichrome? if there were a large special order?

Ilford doesn't do colour.

And there have been an awful lot of equipment and constituent chemistry changes since Verichrome was made.

There has even been a lot of equipment and constituent chemistry changes since Verichrome Pan was made.

Even for current products, Kodak has very large minimum quantity requirements for special orders (such as unusual sizes).

Thomas Bertilsson
02-22-2013, 06:13 PM
Ilford doesn't do colour.

And there have been an awful lot of equipment and constituent chemistry changes since Verichrome was made.

There has even been a lot of equipment and constituent chemistry changes since Verichrome Pan was made.

Even for current products, Kodak has very large minimum quantity requirements for special orders (such as unusual sizes).

Ilford is two parts, related only by name. Harman, that operates Ilford Photo and Kentmere. Then there's a company (in Switzerland I think) that makes inkjet paper. The 'other' Ilford used to make Ilfochrome paper and chemistry, up until about half a year ago.

MattKing
02-22-2013, 06:16 PM
Ilford is two parts, related only by name. Harman, that operates Ilford Photo and Kentmere. Then there's a company (in Switzerland I think) that makes inkjet paper. The 'other' Ilford used to make Ilfochrome paper and chemistry, up until about half a year ago.

Agreed - but as far as I know the only Ilford that does custom coating is the black-and-white Ilford.

Thomas Bertilsson
02-22-2013, 06:34 PM
Agreed - but as far as I know the only Ilford that does custom coating is the black-and-white Ilford.

Yeah, who knows if they even coat anything at all at the Swiss Ilford. I guess everything has a price. Had somebody very rich stepped up and offered them enough money to continue making Ilfochrome, I bet they would. But that kind of demand just wasn't there for them towards the end, evidently. I think it was only a handful or two labs towards the end that actually offered Ilfochrome printing service.

Anyway, let's get back to Arista Premium and Kodak.

AgX
02-22-2013, 09:52 PM
Ilford is two parts, related only by name. Harman, that operates Ilford Photo and Kentmere. Then there's a company (in Switzerland I think) that makes inkjet paper. The 'other' Ilford used to make Ilfochrome paper and chemistry, up until about half a year ago.

Actually both are related by history. The part that bears the name Ilford the shorter time is legally the true Ilford as since long it is their company name. Ilford Photo is actually only a brand name of the other company, though historically the older Ilford, but lost Ilford as company name.

StoneNYC
02-23-2013, 08:50 AM
Thanks Matt, Thomas, AgX.

I knew I wasn't totally crazy, I remembered ilfochrome being mentioned more than once in regard to chrome papers.

What about the chemistry? I have a guy who will make me a few chrome prints, because he has lots of paper, but has NO chemistry to process it... Who makes that?

PS had no idea Kentmere was also Ilford. Hmmm...




~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

AgX
02-23-2013, 10:37 AM
The print-chemistries were made by Ilford. They are now stated as discontinued.

cmacd123
02-07-2015, 07:12 PM
well, Freestyle mentioned on Facebook that the LAST of the Arista Premium 400 has left the building :(

Newt_on_Swings
02-07-2015, 11:22 PM
well, Freestyle mentioned on Facebook that the LAST of the Arista Premium 400 has left the building :(

That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?

RattyMouse
02-07-2015, 11:50 PM
That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?

Kentemere.

Ricardo Miranda
02-08-2015, 03:14 AM
Kentemere.

It is actually Kentmere.
Or they can buy Foma.
All fresh from the factory. No slitting from frozen master rolls in there.

cmacd123
02-08-2015, 09:41 AM
Kentmere is proably the best price/quality of the currently available stocks. probably the only thing less expensive per shot would be loading from 400Ft rolls of Filmotec N74, and that would be a logistical problem for a student.

The EDU.Ultra is also curently in Non DX coded cassettes, which can be an annoyance with recent models of 35mm cameras - particularly the Point and shoot type that students may be asked to use to emphasize Composition.

Looking at Freestyles page, the EDU.Ultra is only 3 bucks (but is out of stock) and at their current sale prices, real 400TX Tri-x is 4.67 while kentmere is 4.89. the foma branded fomapan is 4.19. HP5 is 5.59 to round out the popular price stocks. Other dealers may have a different take on which is cheeper.

Thomas Bertilsson
02-08-2015, 10:30 AM
Tri-X and HP5+ are still pretty affordable, and very good quality. I haven't tried the Kentmere, but am currently working through some Ilford Pan 400, which is supposed to be similar, and it's really great film too.

If I was working with Arista Premium before, I'd just continue to buy Tri-X in the yellow box. Focus on the results and soon it becomes clear that it's better to continue with what's known. Unless you like to experiment, of course.

Less cost can also mean that you know what to expect once you print the negs. That means a lot less darkroom waste.

Xmas
02-08-2015, 12:52 PM
That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?
If you can't take photos with Forma film you are not much of a student.

Xmas
02-08-2015, 12:57 PM
...probably the only thing less expensive per shot would be loading from 400Ft rolls of Filmotec N74, and that would be a logistical problem for a student.


It is easy to spool off 100 foot in a changing bag even from a 1000 foot cine core. If you are poor enough.

Newt_on_Swings
02-08-2015, 06:17 PM
If you can't take photos with Forma film you are not much of a student.

I teach students as young as 6 years old up to 18, every advantage they can get makes the whole process easier, not just the capture, but loading onto reels, developing, and printing. The latitude afforded by tri x in both exposure and processing helps a bunch, as well as the durability of the film when handled wet by inexperienced hands. I have in the past ordered about 100 rolls of arista edu to test, in 100 and 400 but I always went back to the arista premium. When plus x went away there was a gap that wasn't filled either on the arista premium line, with the 400 totally gone now there is sure to be an impact in photo programs and budget minded photographers.

Thomas Bertilsson
02-08-2015, 09:25 PM
I teach students as young as 6 years old up to 18, every advantage they can get makes the whole process easier, not just the capture, but loading onto reels, developing, and printing. The latitude afforded by tri x in both exposure and processing helps a bunch, as well as the durability of the film when handled wet by inexperienced hands. I have in the past ordered about 100 rolls of arista edu to test, in 100 and 400 but I always went back to the arista premium. When plus x went away there was a gap that wasn't filled either on the arista premium line, with the 400 totally gone now there is sure to be an impact in photo programs and budget minded photographers.

How about bulk loading?

And please do check out the Kentmere. Made by Ilford it is really high quality stuff. I've shot with HP5+ for a while now and it is just as tolerant as Tri-X, and I expect Kentmere to be extremely similar to HP5+.
Especially the 100 speed is very inexpensive!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Kentmere&ci=2545&N=4294548524+4019732826+4130468181+4291390680

Newt_on_Swings
02-08-2015, 10:08 PM
Bulk loading would bring it down a bit, but paying me for the time to bulk load it would effectively cancel out any savings. And I'm not totally against edu/foma. All the paper we use is arista edu and our 4x5 film is arista edu as well. Just the 35mm and 120 lacks a bit. Hp5 is great, in the past I had loaded up tons of it for the program when it was buy one get one free. If kentmere were closer in price it would be a good substitute.

trythis
02-09-2015, 12:09 AM
I went with Kentmere for the price, I like it very much and will buy it again for the look.

Thomas Bertilsson
02-09-2015, 07:46 AM
Bulk loading would bring it down a bit, but paying me for the time to bulk load it would effectively cancel out any savings. And I'm not totally against edu/foma. All the paper we use is arista edu and our 4x5 film is arista edu as well. Just the 35mm and 120 lacks a bit. Hp5 is great, in the past I had loaded up tons of it for the program when it was buy one get one free. If kentmere were closer in price it would be a good substitute.

Kentmere is $2.95 a roll in ISO 100. That's pretty close to what Arista Premium 100 cost in the day.

Kentmere 400 is $3.95 a roll, still the least expensive ISO 400 film out there, except for Arista 400.

The thing about the Arista/Foma, as you mentioned before, is that in 35mm it just isn't as technically refined as the Kodak or Ilford. But it does have some charms too. The ISO 200 film is closer in performance to the Tri-X and HP5+ than the 400 is. It sort of looks like the old Tri-X before it was reinvented when Kodak built a new coating facility back around the year 2000. The Foma/Arista has worse antihalation, so blooming occurs in bright/dark adjacent areas of the film (35mm only). So you have to watch it when you shoot a bit more. Then it also reacts much faster to development changes and requires a more careful hand when processing. But use developers diluted so that you get longer developing times, and then that makes the 'difficulty' of getting it right time wise a bit more manageable.
When properly tested (by you), exposed and processed, the Foma 400 is a wonderful film, capable of stunning results.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record. :)

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.