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AgX
04-29-2013, 11:49 AM
The coating facility in Englad that makes color paper will now be a property of the KPP (Kodak Pension Plan) of England. This is still a Kodak entity in a sense. No other facility is involved.

PE

Kodak states of the Personal Imaging and the Document Imaging divisions to have been traded, not about any restrictions to their UK assests alone.

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 11:56 AM
So who will own and run the coating machine in Rochester from now on?


That Kodak Pension fund.


All previously posted information contradicts that. Based on the answers in earlier threads, the new owner will be distributing products coated and packaged in Rochester by Kodak…


The coating facility in Englad that makes color paper will now be a property of the KPP (Kodak Pension Plan) of England. This is still a Kodak entity in a sense. No other facility is involved...OK, I overlooked the English paper output. However, all Kodak-branded film will be supplied to the new UK Pension Plan-owned distribution entity, whatever name it chooses at closing, by Eastman Kodak Company in Rochester.


…Colleen -- will the agreement include terms which guarantee the new PI & DI owning entity that Kodak will continue to supply existing sensitized product for a minimum number of years? If so, how many years?In light of Ron's input, please revise my question to read "Will the agreement include terms which guarantee the new PI & DI owning entity that Kodak will continue to supply existing film products for a minimum number of years? If so, how many years?

wy2l
04-29-2013, 12:08 PM
OK, clue me in... what's the status of the pension for US Kodak employes and retires?

nickrapak
04-29-2013, 12:26 PM
OK, clue me in... what's the status of the pension for US Kodak employes and retires?

My guess is that the answer involves Perez doubled over in laughter while swimming in cash from his various boni.

wblynch
04-29-2013, 12:33 PM
It sounds like the UK pensioners were told, 'take this beast or lose all'.

I have a bad feeling that the US pensioners are on the 'lose all' side of the deal.

Perhaps KPP will being back Ektachrome ? !!

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 12:49 PM
It sounds to me like some of the folks involved in the KPP in the UK looked at the Ilford management buyout and weighed that against their resources and assets and say "well, we could do that too!" Surely there are some former Kodakers that know something about the film business dependent upon the pension plan and willing to go head to head with Ilford, even if only in an advisory capacity to the people really running the business. Think about our friend PE, for instance. He's not in the UK, though, but there must be someone over there like him. Kodak had a major facilities in the UK, right?

The company I work at has an arm in the UK and I have often gotten the feeling that over there they are more interested in "doing business" and willing to stick their necks out a little for the potential return. (vs the US where sometimes it seems to be more like "where can we buy it and get the production to China.") They usually seem to find a way to make it work - Ilford would be a case in point. Or, Adox.... etc.

Ilford doesn't supply color film, so maybe these KPP guys see an opportunity there, in addition to Kodak's great B/W products. If my thoughts are correct, two great film manufacturers going head to head with the best products in the world in a competitive and healthy way could be a very good thing for all of us.

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 12:52 PM
Perhaps KPP will being back Ektachrome ? !!

Could they coat film products today at Harrow or Leeds? I would imagine they did at one time. I have some Portra NC that says manufactured in Great Britain.

Or, is there enough value there to justify building a smallish coating facility on an Ilford scale? You know, there was that lady who wrote about Kodak's supposed technology to make any film at any time in any quantity.

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:21 PM
Kodak had a major facilities in the UK, right?

Kodak still has a coating facility in the UK. But I don't understand why you exclude the Rochester facility. It's part of that deal.

nickrapak
04-29-2013, 01:24 PM
Kodak still has a coating facility in the UK. But I don't understand why you exclude the Rochester facility. It's part of that deal.

No, it's not. Please show me one news article that says that EK will be selling off the Rochester coating facility.

MattKing
04-29-2013, 01:25 PM
Eastman Kodak is a US company, and is the only Kodak that is in bankruptcy.

The other Kodaks around the world (Kodak Limited in the UK, Kodak Canada in Canada, etc.) are separate entities and are not in bankruptcy. They have their own assets and their own liabilities, including (as I understand it) their own pension funds, and pension obligations to their employees.

Each of the international Kodaks operate their pension systems under the pension laws of their own country.

As I understand it, all the international Kodaks are owned by Eastman Kodak. In most cases, therefore, each of their net values show as an asset on Eastman Kodak's balance sheet.

It appears to me that the pension obligations of Kodak Limited (the UK Kodak):
1) are at least partially shared by Eastman Kodak, because the Kodak Limited pension fund shows as a creditor of Eastman Kodak; and
2) apparently have been seriously underfunded in the past, because the extent of the claim is 2.8 billion dollars, and is the largest claim in the bankruptcy.

As I understand it, Eastman Kodak has no liability to all or most of the other pensioners in the other international Kodaks. I expect that they are set up like Kodak Canada, where the pension fund and its obligations have been set up by Kodak Canada, and that funds assets and obligations are the responsibility of the Canadian corporation - not Eastman Kodak. While the Canadian employees and retirees are not without concern, they have some security in the fact that, when last evaluated (in 2010?) by the department of the Ontario Canada government charged with monitoring private pension funds, the Kodak Canada fund was estimated to have assets sufficient to fund approximately 97% of its projected obligations.

As I understand it, the majority of those in the USA entitled to pensions from Eastman Kodak have a more complex situation, but there are set aside substantial sums for them as well.

I don't know why the shortfall is so large in the UK. I expect that Eastman Kodak is a creditor for UK pensions because of the peculiarities of UK law.

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:26 PM
Kodak states:

Under the agreement, which will be filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Kodak’s Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses will be spun off under new ownership to KPP.


The settlement agreement provides, among other things, for the spin-off of Kodak’s Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses to KPP for cash and non-cash consideration of $650 million.

Perez is quoted:

The KPP transaction moves us past several key hurdles in our reorganization, resolving all potential claims worldwide, assuring continued operations outside of the United States, placing our Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses with a new owner

I admit though that the latter statement could be read either as closure of the Rochester plant concerning filmmaking, or as retaining a second plant abroad in addition to the mother plant...

MattKing
04-29-2013, 01:31 PM
from AgX:

Kodak states:

Under the agreement, which will be filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Kodak’s Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses will be spun off under new ownership to KPP.


and Kodak has previously stated that they are retaining the film and paper manufacturing equipment outside of the Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging divisions, in order to fulfill their commercial motion picture film contracts that they still have.

Hatchetman
04-29-2013, 01:34 PM
So Kodak would still produce the film in Rochester for the new entity. That's how it sounds.

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:38 PM
That press release of today does not indicate any retaining of film making equipment. Kodak did sell plants before and hired production capacity from the new owner when necessary.


And...what would anyone spend $650million on?

The whole Agfa consumer branch, seemingly not smaller than the resting Kodak filmmaking business cost only €175 about 9 years ago.

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 01:38 PM
So Kodak would still produce the film in Rochester for the new entity. That's how it sounds.But for how long?

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:47 PM
As indicated above the issue of the Document Imaging division is also unclear: A few days ago the coming sale to Brother was announced, now its trade to KPP is stated.


We just got a Kodak PR employee posting here for one of the few times in her years long membership, but still do not get some clarification...

MattKing
04-29-2013, 01:49 PM
Document Imaging is a different division: "Kodak’s Document Imaging business provides a comprehensive portfolio of scanners, capture software and services to enterprise customers"

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 01:50 PM
So Kodak would still produce the film in Rochester for the new entity. That's how it sounds.

Or, they might simply continue to produce film in Rochester until the MP contracts run out and by that time the new entity would have to have a coating facility up and running if they wish to make film. (Up and running might include buying out the existing facility.)

Once the contracts are finished, Eastman Kodak (US) could do with the coating facility as they pleased. I'd imagine Perez would just love to find a way to dump it.

So, we know there are Kodak coating facilities in the UK. It's likely that at one time not so long ago most if not all Kodak films were coated there for the UK and European markets. Maybe they can bring that capability back on-line. It's probably much smaller that the coating plant in Rochester.

PDH
04-29-2013, 01:52 PM
With motion picture copies in the US coming to an end I dont understand what the value is for new owners. $650,000,000 is a lot of money for legacy rights.

MattKing
04-29-2013, 01:54 PM
The colour paper market is still reasonably robust.