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AgX
04-29-2013, 12:57 PM
Document Imaging is a different division: "Kodak’s Document Imaging business provides a comprehensive portfolio of scanners, capture software and services to enterprise customers"

That Division in the past included the production and sale of microfilms. All the Kodak range of microfilms had been sold to a new company meanwhile, with Kodak still producing those films. Recently though Agfa acquired from that new company the order to supply them with film to be traded then under the Kodak brand. As the market is not growing this can only be read as Agfa substituting a cancelled Kodak production.

Photo Engineer
04-29-2013, 12:57 PM
All a bunch of speculation here so far, from people who don't know the entire picture.

Kodak is NOT selling their film business. Copies of Motion Picture images is going UP for archival reasons, using digital masters. Professional sheet and roll films will continue to be produced.

PE

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 12:58 PM
...So, we know there are Kodak coating facilities in the UK. It's likely that at one time not so long ago most if not all Kodak films were coated there for the UK and European markets. Maybe they can bring that capability back on-line...One cannot simply move production of existing films to a new coating line and expect them to be the same. When Kodak transitioned production of its films to the large Bldg. 38 equipment approximately a decade ago, product characteristics changed substantially.

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:00 PM
All a bunch of speculation here so far, from people who don't know the entire picture.

Kodak is NOT selling their film business. Copies of Motion Picture images is going UP for archival reasons, using digital masters. Professional sheet and roll films will continue to be produced.

PE


If you know better, please tell us. You have to admit that that Kodak press release is enigmatic. And what I posted so far is what I read out of it.

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 01:11 PM
One cannot simply move production of existing films to a new coating line and expect them to be the same. When Kodak transitioned production of its films to the large Bldg. 38 equipment approximately a decade ago, product characteristics changed substantially.

Oh, no doubt of that. The only difference here being that they might plan on re-activating a Kodak coating line that has already been used at one time to produce many of the current Kodak products or at least very similar ones. Fifteen years ago Kodak made many of their film products worldwide in many plants. I don't know that ALL products were made in ALL plants. But Kodacolor Gold 100 made in Rochester was pretty much equivalent to Kodacolor Gold 100 made at Kodak Pathe'. And I'd be willing to bet if they made it at Harrow it was pretty much the same there, too. So, they did this all at one time. They can't have completely have forgotten how to do this stuff. It's a chemical manufacturing process, after all.

Now trying to make and coat a Kodak film at an Agfa plant - yeah, that's a whole different ball game.

This is all speculation anyway. But, we can see a possible path to downsizing here. Who knows what they plan on doing?

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 01:22 PM
...They can't have completely have forgotten how to do this stuff. It's a chemical manufacturing process, after all...Search APUG for Ron's (Photo Engineer's) many posts on this subject. Continuing existing production of color paper in Enland is one thing; initiating manufacture of one or more films there is quite another. Which, if any, engineering staff members -- of all the different varieties film manufacturing needs -- will be part of this transaction? How many possessing those critical skills are located in or would relocate to England? How old are they and how long does it take to apprentice successors?

At this point, until further details are released, I think the most important unknown for anyone who desires continued availability of current Kodak films is how long will Kodak Rochester guarantee to manufacture them for the new entity.

wblynch
04-29-2013, 01:28 PM
This announcement makes me wonder a bit about the new Freestyle Black and White films coming from the UK.

Might they be sourced by KPP ?

cdkrenzer
04-29-2013, 01:30 PM
Hi Sal - You are correct. All film (still and motion picture) manufacturing will remain with Kodak in Rochester. I don't have any information on the 2nd part of the question - all I can say is what we've said previously (as that has not changed). The lifecycle of film will depend on consumer and professional demand for the products.

cdkrenzer
04-29-2013, 01:35 PM
All of our paper manufacturing capability, IP and team around the world will move to the new company. Our consumer and professional film will continue to be made in Kodak’s film factories via a long-term supply agreement.

AgX
04-29-2013, 01:42 PM
Thank you for that update, Colleen. That press release though included still film in the Personalized Imaging Division.

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 01:43 PM
Our consumer and professional film will continue to be made in Kodak’s film factories via a long-term supply agreement.

Well, there you go then. At least that must mean Kodak still sees some value in it, at least for now.

cdkrenzer
04-29-2013, 01:47 PM
To clarify, Kodak will MANUFACTURE both motion picture and still film in Rochester. The BUSINESS of still film is part of Personalized Imaging and is part of the spin-off and will be supplied to KPP as part of a long-term supply agreement.

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 01:49 PM
…Will the agreement include terms which guarantee the new PI & DI owning entity that Kodak will continue to supply existing film products for a minimum number of years? If so, how many years?

…All film (still and motion picture) manufacturing will remain with Kodak in Rochester. I don't have any information on the 2nd part of the question...

...Our consumer and professional film will continue to be made in Kodak’s film factories via a long-term supply agreement.If you don't have information on how many years Kodak will supply the new entity with film, how can the agreement be characterized as "long term?"

kb3lms
04-29-2013, 01:56 PM
Colleen, thank you for the updates. Any news we can get from the manufacturers is much valued.

Maybe you can answer a question I have, does Kodak use that giant Building 38 Rochester coating facility to produce any other (ie non-film/paper) products - maybe for other parties? I don't need to know what, unless they'd like to share, but I feel increased use of that facility is maybe one of the best hopes for longevity of the products we love here.

cdkrenzer
04-29-2013, 02:03 PM
Sal - I should have been more specific in my answer - as I meant I can't give you the detail you requested. I can't say specifically how many years (per your question). What I do know is that it's a long term supply agreement.

cdkrenzer
04-29-2013, 02:06 PM
Colleen, thank you for the updates. Any news we can get from the manufacturers is much valued.

Maybe you can answer a question I have, does Kodak use that giant Building 38 Rochester coating facility to produce any other (ie non-film/paper) products - maybe for other parties? I don't need to know what, unless they'd like to share, but I feel increased use of that facility is maybe one of the best hopes for longevity of the products we love here.

I don't know the answer to that question. But I will check.

Sal Santamaura
04-29-2013, 02:07 PM
Sal - I should have been more specific in my answer - as I meant I can't give you the detail you requested. I can't say specifically how many years (per your question). What I do know is that it's a long term supply agreement.Thanks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. ;)

AgX
04-29-2013, 02:15 PM
From what I understand now:

-) the Document Imaging Division (meanwhile electronics only)
-) the Harrow plant
-) the business of still film

(all estimated at $650 Million) have been traded in for a debit of $2,8 Billion with that pension fund.


The Rochester film plant will remain in ownership of Kodak.

Michael R 1974
04-29-2013, 02:20 PM
I wish I could be more optimistic. Did we ever figure out whether or not film generates positive free cash flow? The Fund will be under pressure to monetize assets.

I just hope things turn out the best they can for employees (and Kodak films).

Ektagraphic
04-29-2013, 02:22 PM
I am trying to understand if there are any benefits that might come out of this if Kodak is still going to be owning and operating Building 38 themselves and will not be sending ownership and control to KPP who claims to care more.