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m1tch
08-11-2013, 04:47 PM
Hi all,

I am just thinking about using paper negatives for maybe some portrait shots (still deciding and looking at different options that I might want to look into), my main question is around the use of flash and the slower paper negatives.

Would it be possible to use a flash but still use a paper negative? I know that paper negatives are rather slow but was wondering if it were possible to use a paper negative and a flash to get a short enough exposure time for a portrait?

JohnRichard
08-11-2013, 05:46 PM
Most paper negatives fall somewhere around the ASA 6 range (at least for me). Why not do a test?
Shoot a still at the speed rating you want to use with flash and see what happens.

Perhaps 5 seconds at some mid-aperture with flash.
Would be interesting to see what came out of shooting in total darkness with multiple flash bursts.
There are plenty of people that shoot portraits without flash.

Ken Nadvornick
08-11-2013, 06:28 PM
Just for a ballpark sense of the problem, here's a generated flash-to-subject distance chart (from a small utility I wrote for my own use) for a higher-end Vivitar 285HV flash.

The Guide Number for this flash is rated at 120 at ISO-100 by the manufacturer. All three regular zoom modes are shown, plus a column for use of the external diffuser filter at the Normal zoom setting. The "film" speed is set to ISO-6, per JohnRichard's estimate. The Guide Numbers for each 285HV zoom mode are indicated at the top of the chart.

As you can see, even at the likely optimistic manufacturer's flash rating, the distances for standard large format apertures result in very compromised flash-to-subject distances. Generally (see NORM column) from only 5+ feet (at f/5.6, generally wide-open) down to less than 1 foot (for f/32 or greater, apertures required for any reasonably usable DOF). All distances shown are in feet.

http://kjnadvor.home.comcast.net/~kjnadvor/apug/FlashChart.jpg

Ken

jnanian
08-11-2013, 07:38 PM
it really depends on the paper ..
i have taken many portraits with modeling lights and
flash. graded paper and VC paper are sensitive ( it seems )
to different types of light so do some tests before you shoot ...
( i have used a lot of agfa grade 1 ( and 0 ) paper
and it took 3 600WS bursts through soffboxes to get a good exposure
and without the flash same soffboxes, same modeling lights 30-40second exposures )

YMMV

m1tch
08-12-2013, 02:43 AM
Thanks for everyones help :) perhaps multiply flashes would be the answer? I havn't yet started to use paper negatives but will be soon, I am currently looking into different lighting setups as well so that I get the right sort for what I am looking to do.

How were portraits done 'back in the day'? Was it a case that the wet plate was much faster than paper negatives?

gandolfi
08-12-2013, 04:42 AM
just go for it - I do it all the time - I rate my paper (mostly Foma RC paper) a 8-12 iso so it is highly possible with only one flash...

I can show some examples if need be..

Don't wait - it is too much fun for that!!

jnanian
08-12-2013, 04:45 AM
just go for it - I do it all the time - I rate my paper (mostly Foma RC paper) a 8-12 iso so it is highly possible with only one flash...

I can show some examples if need be..

Don't wait - it is too much fun for that!!

yes, wicked fun, and sort of addictive!! :)

pasiasty
08-12-2013, 11:22 AM
Would it be possible to use a flash but still use a paper negative?
Yes.

http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40471382 (blue toned)
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40668190
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433 (http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433)

still-life is also possible:
http://fav.me/d52cgvt
http://fav.me/d5jr34z

All taken with at most 400Ws heads. But if you want to take some high-key pictures, you'd better get a few 2000Ws ones...

m1tch
08-12-2013, 02:42 PM
Yes.

http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40471382 (blue toned)
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40668190
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433 (http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433)

still-life is also possible:
http://fav.me/d52cgvt
http://fav.me/d5jr34z

All taken with at most 400Ws heads. But if you want to take some high-key pictures, you'd better get a few 2000Ws ones...

What sort of shutter speeds were those taken at?

pasiasty
08-12-2013, 05:02 PM
What sort of shutter speeds were those taken at?
shutter speed? does it matter with flash lights?

Ken Nadvornick
08-12-2013, 05:27 PM
shutter speed? does it matter with flash lights?

As long as you are using a synchronized shutter speed setting, no. It's the paper emulsion speed, flash intensity and flash-to-subject distance that counts.

That's why I posted the chart...

[Edit: Flashbulbs are a slightly different story. Due to their slow-burning nature, their effective GNs can vary by shutter speed.]

Ken

analoguey
03-08-2014, 12:42 AM
Yes.

http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40471382 (blue toned)
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/40668190
http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433 (http://pasiasty.deviantart.com/gallery/41155433)

still-life is also possible:
http://fav.me/d52cgvt
http://fav.me/d5jr34z

All taken with at most 400Ws heads. But if you want to take some high-key pictures, you'd better get a few 2000Ws ones...

Nice work!
Can something similar be achieved with speedlights or do they not have enough power for slow speed of paper?

Sent from Tap-a-talk

pasiasty
03-08-2014, 02:01 AM
Nice work!
Can something similar be achieved with speedlights or do they not have enough power for slow speed of paper?

You'd have to keep very short distance between your flashes and subject (as Ken mentioned above). Or you may, for a static subject, open a shutter and fire the flash(es) several times (kinda light-painting with flash heads). Anyway, PE paper is cheap, if you have a suitable camera, you can just try.