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jnanian
08-28-2013, 11:46 AM
I have no clue what this thread is about. Can someone please explain it in 25 words or less?

hi doc

not in 25 words ...

maybe:

nonsubscriber with link to clichéed image disallowed at other sites needs "votes" for "validation", some think its pathetic, others don'tcare, others joke, others ....

i guess i did it in 25 words.

Tom1956
08-28-2013, 12:01 PM
No offense to the OP, but I'm surprised the moderators have not closed the thread.

Moopheus
08-28-2013, 12:13 PM
No offense to the OP, but I'm surprised the moderators have not closed the thread.

Why? Just for being kinda pointless? There wouldn't be much on the Internet if you tried to enforce that rule.

pbromaghin
08-28-2013, 12:48 PM
I voted on the question, but I also am wondering what the point is. I have no objection to pictures of Nazis and don't really understand why others do. They were a band of criminals who purposely brought on the greatest calamity the world has ever seen and they must be remembered. Neo-Nazis are just pitiful creeps. Dangerous pitiful creeps, but still pitiful.

MatthewDunn
08-28-2013, 01:18 PM
I voted on the question, but I also am wondering what the point is. I have no objection to pictures of Nazis and don't really understand why others do. They were a band of criminals who purposely brought on the greatest calamity the world has ever seen and they must be remembered. Neo-Nazis are just pitiful creeps. Dangerous pitiful creeps, but still pitiful.

I don't have any objections to pictures of Nazis per se. I just don't like images of Nazis being bandied about for another purpose (i.e. to be "edgy" or "alternative", etc.). As you say, the tragedies brought on by the Nazis constitute the greatest calamity of the 20th century (and possibly in all of history) and images of that regime should not be used lightly, lest they lose their power to remind us of the extent of that tragedy.

If someone is trying to make a statement about that tragedy and wants to use that imagery...fine. If someone is just trying to establish a reputation as an "artist" that is "edgy", I think it is in poor form and, as others have commented, a little tired, overused, etc.

MatthewDunn
08-28-2013, 01:23 PM
Also, just to say it, the tone of the OP's posts in this thread aren't winning any points. The "I'll tell you my secret...maybe...if I get enough votes..." is a little annoying. If you want an honest opinion, ask an honest question without playing "hide the ball."

pbromaghin
08-28-2013, 01:28 PM
Matthew - good points.

Iluvmycam
08-28-2013, 04:25 PM
OK, I will give the rundown in a few hours. Looks like only 4% of the people bothered to vote. Get it in...time is running out!

Rick A
08-28-2013, 04:45 PM
OK, I will give the rundown in a few hours. Looks like only 4% of the people bothered to vote. Get it in...time is running out!

Whos time, yours or ours?

TheFlyingCamera
08-28-2013, 05:05 PM
I sincerely hope it is documentary and not staged, because if it were staged it would say nothing positive about the photographer. That said, I voted that it is staged, because I would hope that the person depicted in the photo did not in fact share those opinions expressed by the flag and the newspaper headline.

+1 to the opinions expressed that it comes across as a tasteless attempt at generating shock value, sadly through cliched hackneyed tropes. NOT that I'm encouraging exploration of other forms of shock like violence either. And enough with the coy games. Just out with it and say what you're looking for.

cliveh
08-28-2013, 05:15 PM
This could be a visual psychological experiment by the OP.

Moopheus
08-28-2013, 05:42 PM
OK, I will give the rundown in a few hours. Looks like only 4% of the people bothered to vote. Get it in...time is running out!

Is there a prize if we guess right?

Actually, I'm guessing not staged. The pile of crap in the background suggests clueless loser, and this photo does not otherwise suggest careful attention to detail.

Iluvmycam
08-28-2013, 07:06 PM
OK, here is the rundown as promised…

I was first clued into the ‘staging’ issue when I posted a photo of a pole dancer to another forum. (Nude)

http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/693488
(http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/693488)
One member replied how he would have moved the pole to another angle, as he didn’t like my positioning. Another said he would have used a different base color, as he didn’t like my blue color. Well you know how it goes, everybody can shoot it better than you can. But that is not the issue. I’m well used to how great everyone else is and how bad I am. My problem was that the pole dancer was NOT a staged shot.

How in the hell they think I staged it is beyond me. It would seem pretty clear I was walking by her camp and asked to to hold still for a second so I could shoot her. But what is clear to me must not be clear to others. So I let it go and dismissed it as a fluke.

Here is another one that they say I staged. (Nude)

http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/732608-the-sunlit-slipper
(http://www.artslant.com/ny/works/show/732608-the-sunlit-slipper)
I met her in L.A. in 1973. I went to her house to shoot her. The floor was littered with dog poop. I had to be careful where I stepped and where I put the tripod legs. The only light was the window. Was a very tough print to do. If I staged it, I would have lit it some.

Now, getting to the Nazi. The same staging accusation came up on another forum a couple weeks ago. The photo in this poll question is of an American Nazi. I met her in L.A. in 1973 and went to her house so shoot her. I photographed her in her bedroom - everything is exactly as shown. She is posed…but photo is not staged.

I was never aware so many people viewed the Nazi photo as staged before. After I received some of this feedback I decided to put a note on the back stating the photo is not staged and exactly what it was. Same with the pole dancer and a few others I didn’t want to be accused of staging.

The PP was done for anonymity. For decades I showed the Nazi photo as a standard BW. But when the internet came along I was not comfortable putting it out there. So that is the reason for the processing. While black face was not my first choice. I am very happy with the outcome and wont be changing a thing to it.

Thanks to all that bothered to vote. I appreciate your feedback!

cliveh
08-28-2013, 07:13 PM
OK, here is the rundown as promised…

Now, getting to the Nazi. She is posed…but photo is not staged.



If she posed it is staged.

Klainmeister
08-28-2013, 07:52 PM
Posing is staged, but the question is: why are you so upset over a staged shot? My friend once went into Antelope Canyon in the early 80s and it turned out that an up-and-coming Utah landscape photographer happened to be on the same trip. He pulls out his feather, clears the footprints and even brought in his own tumbleweed! Well, that shot still sales for tons of money... To some extent, a lot of the not-staged stuff has a staged aspect to it whether or not it was intentional either.

omaha
08-28-2013, 08:00 PM
Fishing for clicks.

David A. Goldfarb
08-28-2013, 08:19 PM
As a one-off image, it doesn't really matter. There just isn't enough information there to say what it means. Maybe it's an expose of contemporary American neo-Nazis, or maybe it's a form of Nazi propaganda, or maybe it's a dramatization of something in the photographer's mind.

If this is part of a larger documentary essay, then the question is whether the essay as a whole is honest. Is it a fair study of neo-Nazis, or is it an exaggeration or manipulation?

Recently I saw a photograph of someone's hand with parallel lacerations through the fingers--a disturbing image. The caption described it as punishment in an Islamic country for reading the Bible. The photo has also circulated for years with a caption describing it as an accident involving a paper shredder.

Documentary photos are not "art for art's sake." Their meaning depends on some context and explanation, whether in the form of text or a body of images or implied context. That's part of the art and craft of documentary.

jnanian
08-28-2013, 09:26 PM
what is the point of this portrait ?