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View Full Version : On the Table: European BPX: Pros, Cons and sound off



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Ian Grant
12-09-2013, 01:35 PM
I'd be interested but it depends whether I can get a new darkroom up & running quickly or borrow one - not so easy as I mainly shoot LF.

Ian

Ken Nadvornick
12-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Personally I'd hate to see the BPX tribalized by splitting it up regionally. So often regional differences between cultures just melt away when people are in one-to-one contact with each other at any level.

It's a lesson I learned very early while working at Disneyland during my undergraduate college days. One learns very quickly when dealing directly with someone from halfway around the world that it's just another person not so different from you.

When you send a BPX print to someone, also write them a nice long letter. Talk about your experiences. Ask them about theirs. Respond back to them about the print they sent you. Use photography as an excuse to get to know them. Make a friend. Were it not for the BPX exercise you would never have known they existed at all.

It's not always such a good idea to surround yourself with only those who look, act, and think exactly like you do.

That's the real value I see in an international BPX. And well worth the penalty of a little extra bubble wrap and additional postage.

Ken

andreios
12-09-2013, 02:24 PM
Very well said, Ken! I agree with this completely!

StoneNYC
12-09-2013, 02:50 PM
I agree with Ken, in the past BPX I was part of, there was simply a mention that we should notate in the signup if we would PREFER to keep it within our country/area if we couldn't afford overseas shipping, this seemed to work just fine. Those who were ok with shipping worldwide would, and those who would prefer not to could ship CONUS or if they lived in Europe or whatever could ship there, and if there were an oddball, someone would have to pick up the slack but it could at least give the preferred "local" shipping first priority.

So, I say keep it as usual.

Ian Grant
12-09-2013, 03:42 PM
Why is there such hostility from US members for a European BPX ?

Last time there was an issue like this the majority of UK APUG members just quietly left to set up their own Forum and only a few post occasionally now.

Europe has a deep rich, extremely varied photographic culture. APUG isn't a US based website it's led by an ex-pat US guy settled in New Zealand. If we in Europe want our way of doing things then just back off and realise we don't always want to be US led, or rather misled.

Ian

Ken Nadvornick
12-09-2013, 04:25 PM
I think instead you may be misreading.

It's not hostility by US members to the idea of a European BPX. It's just that some of us APUG members* really do enjoy interacting with members from other countries, and would like to continue with that current BPX format.

If you honestly feel that your interests would be better served by withdrawing from the APUG international BPX exchange and forming a brand new one that caters only to those with interests more similar to your own, I would encourage you to do so.

No one is trying to mislead you anywhere.

:)

Ken

* 'andreios' is from Prague, Bert 'The Toad Men', who so enjoyed my print, is from The Netherlands, most of my own submissions have gone to members outside of the USA...

TheToadMen
12-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Hi Ken,
You're right about that.
But in Europe no country is as you say "who look, act, and think exactly like you do".
Heck, the majority in the UK still think they're outside Europe (and sometimes I wonder if they are right about that too ...) and Turkey is still not sure if they want to be part of Europe or the Middle East Region.
I think that is one of the differences between Europe and the USA. Everything is a lot smaller over here in Europe, still everyone is much further away: cultural, language, style, arts, literature, music, looks, food, ... We Europeans don't travel as much as you CONUS people do (our mistake, I know).

So, in fact a European BPX would be a great opportunity for us "Europeans" to get to know each other better. No melting of cultures over here in Europe. I think that's a prerogative of the US society, something we apparently don't (want to) know?? Again: our mistake (up to some extend).
The US is like "one nation", Europe is but a bunch of countries that happen to be in the same continent. We don't even know where Europe ends. (Did you know that even Russia is a partial in Europe?)

So the "risk" you mention would be more on your side of the ocean, I'm guessing.
But yes, I'm in favor of a worldwide BPX also - right next to a EBPX. I don't want a EBPX if it would drain the worldwide BPX, but somehow I don't think that will happen. There are many more participants in the US than in Europe. And a EBPX might encourage European APUG members to start exchanging too - even join the worldwide BPX in due time?

And I'll join both.
Bert from Holland

(Edit: I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did I apologize upfront: it was unintended)


Personally I'd hate to see the BPX tribalized by splitting it up regionally. So often regional differences between cultures just melt away when people are in one-to-one contact with each other at any level.
(...)
It's not always such a good idea to surround yourself with only those who look, act, and think exactly like you do.
That's the real value I see in an international BPX. And well worth the penalty of a little extra bubble wrap and additional postage.
Ken

Ken Nadvornick
12-09-2013, 06:27 PM
Well then, perhaps I am the one who is misreading.

If those in Europe (and the UK, if they don't want to be thought of as part of Europe either) hold such antagonist feelings toward Americans that they are telling us to "back off" because we enjoy interacting with them via the BPX, and that they want their own print exchange without us in it because we're somehow misleading them in some way, then maybe this whole print exchange idea is not really the friendly international exercise that I thought it was...

I think maybe it might be time for me to take a break from it all.

Ken

MattKing
12-09-2013, 06:30 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire impetus for having separate exchanges rooted in higher shipping costs?

StoneNYC
12-09-2013, 06:37 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire impetus for having separate exchanges rooted in higher shipping costs?

Yes that was my understanding as well.

Which is why I mentioned that this past one, we had the option to specify if we could not afford the overseas shipping costs, but if we COULD afford them, then we might get an international exchange.

This is a worldwide exchange, isn't that the point?

Why should we separate?

Ken Nadvornick
12-09-2013, 06:38 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire impetus for having separate exchanges rooted in higher shipping costs?

Not according to post #25, no...

Ken

Ian Grant
12-10-2013, 04:06 AM
It's worth remembering that there are many regional events and also print exchanges. I've taken part in organised APUG events in the UK, there are similar events in parts of Europe, Australia etc. There's been posts regarding Australian print exchanges.

The point of the original post that Chris made in this thread was about cultural diversity, most of us in Europe wouldn't see that as an issue, and we do tend to ravel inside Europe itself so a purely European Print Exchange would nbe healthy in bringing together a like minded group of photographers with a diverse mix of cultural backgrounds.

Ian

StoneNYC
12-10-2013, 08:14 AM
It's worth remembering that there are many regional events and also print exchanges. I've taken part in organised APUG events in the UK, there are similar events in parts of Europe, Australia etc. There's been posts regarding Australian print exchanges.

The point of the original post that Chris made in this thread was about cultural diversity, most of us in Europe wouldn't see that as an issue, and we do tend to ravel inside Europe itself so a purely European Print Exchange would nbe healthy in bringing together a like minded group of photographers with a diverse mix of cultural backgrounds.

Ian

I think the main issue with that is that there are only so many print exchanges one can be a part of, and if there's a euro specific print exchange, then the current BPX would probably suffer from a drop in European participation. Therefore lessening the full experience of cultural diversity we get currently.

Mustafa Umut Sarac
12-10-2013, 09:12 AM
I am really interested in non english speaking european countries. My only foreign language knowledge is english and I am done with reading english websites. As a German camera and lens , french painting and sculpture , hungarian architecture , austrian arts etc. lover , I always felt I am short to these cultures. I will have better time spent in investing european people , not american 5 dollars thrift store nikon users , laughers and american head shooters and nude slut pictures.

Christopher Walrath
12-10-2013, 09:32 AM
Look, I don't want to generalize. I am not by any stretch hostile about a seperate exchange. On the contrary I encourage it. The main BPX will still be international. A European exchange will only serve to encourage more particpation from our membership. My original con was from the POV that I love European, and other, imagery and heritage and hope that some of it continues still in this main exchange. There, I think I can safely say, is no animosity on either side of the pond whatsoever.

Ken Nadvornick
12-10-2013, 09:38 AM
I will have better time spent in investing european people , not american 5 dollars thrift store nikon users , laughers and american head shooters and nude slut pictures.

Wow...

:(

Ken

TheToadMen
12-10-2013, 02:14 PM
Mustafa,
I don't know if you really meant this or if you expressed yourself poorly because of English not being your native language, but I see no reason to call anyone "5 dollars thrift store nikon users , laughers and american head shooters and nude slut pictures".
If your interest lies more with other European countries instead of elsewhere on the planet, good for you. I can understand that. But please stay friendly to/about other users. Threat them as you wanted to be treated yourself, or even better than that.
Thank you.
Bert from Holland


I am really interested in non english speaking european countries. My only foreign language knowledge is english and I am done with reading english websites. As a German camera and lens , french painting and sculpture , hungarian architecture , austrian arts etc. lover , I always felt I am short to these cultures. I will have better time spent in investing european people , not american 5 dollars thrift store nikon users , laughers and american head shooters and nude slut pictures.

TheToadMen
12-10-2013, 03:22 PM
Hello Ken,
If I made this impression I apologize sincerely!!
That wasn't the meaning of my post at all. I merely wanted to say there are more differences between the US and Europe than meets the eye. In fact, that's what makes this forum (and the BPX) so interesting to me.
I DON'T have antagonist feelings toward Americans and don't want you to "back off" what so ever! Sorry if I made that impression.
I just wanted to say that there is a difference between Europe (not bening one country in nature) and the US as a fact, not an opinion.
And I don't want an exchange without CONUS members, in contrary. I'm only comtemplating about an extra EBPX to attract more APUG users from Europe to all the exchanges. Especially because there aren't that much European participants right now.
But I didn't mean for anyone to back off and I don't want an exchange without you US folks at all. I just want an extra exchange besides the one we already have and enjoy so much. And yes, I have some reservations to a EBPX because I don't want it to pull people away from the worldwide BPX.

So, please Ken, don't give up on the BPX on behalf of my ranting. I'm still enjoying your print from BPX-18.
I apologize for the inconvenience I caused you.
Bert from Holland


Well then, perhaps I am the one who is misreading.

If those in Europe (and the UK, if they don't want to be thought of as part of Europe either) hold such antagonist feelings toward Americans that they are telling us to "back off" because we enjoy interacting with them via the BPX, and that they want their own print exchange without us in it because we're somehow misleading them in some way, then maybe this whole print exchange idea is not really the friendly international exercise that I thought it was...

I think maybe it might be time for me to take a break from it all.

Ken

Steve Smith
12-10-2013, 03:30 PM
I have just one question: What does BPX stand for?

I assume P is for print and X is for exchange (although it should be E).

So that just leaves the B as a mystery to me!


Steve.

Christopher Walrath
12-10-2013, 03:53 PM
B equals Blind. Meaning you do not know from whom you will receive a print. And the X is just cooler.