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NedL
02-14-2014, 05:54 PM
Hi Bert,

In that paper, Lord Rayleigh references Capt. Abney's work on varying the aperture in landscape work. I'm using Capt. Abney's book as my directions for making calotypes. Everything is connected eventually!

My understanding is that there are two ways to approach the problem. The one used by Rayleigh gets to maximum resolution. Calculations based on the Airy disk try to maximize the contrast. Ralph Lambrecht has posts here at APUG about this, and I think I got my constant of 1.56 from something he wrote. Oversimplifying, if we want to have the first diffraction rings coincide at a particular wavelength, it should provide maximum contrast and "perceived sharpness".

I used: d = c * sqrt( w * f )

c = constant
d = pinhole diameter
w = wavelength of light
f = "focal length"

I like to use 475 or 500 nanometer wavelength for paper, and a constant of 1.56, so:

0.854 = 1.56 * sqrt( 5e-4 * 600 ) all units are mm.

But just like you I tend to cheat toward a smaller one... and use 475nm or a constant of 1.5 or 1.45. I think a lot of UV goes through and that's why our experience pushes us that direction.

Have fun!

02-23-2014, 05:04 PM
Hi Ned,
I used even a smaller one (as you suggested): a pinhole of 0.6 mm. I finally taped the whole box together. I even made a large door, hinged with Duckt tape alone! The camera is big enough for me to get inside and fix a pinhole or the paper negative ;)

I made a quick test shot just before dawn to see if it worked at all. I used a 8x10" Ilford B&W paper first because I have only 9 sheets of the 20x24" Ilford B&W paper. Since I have a f-number of f 1/1000 and ISO of 2 I had a calculated exposure time of 2 houres. It was already 17.20 hours (5.20 PM) and the sun sets at about 18.00 (6.00 PM). But I tried anyway and wouldn't mind if it was underexposed since it was a simple first test.

82949 82948

I placed the camera in my garden, opened the shutter and got me a chair and a book. I sat for about 20 minutes and went inside. I left the shutter open until about 15 minutes after sunset. The total exposure time was about 1 hour. I then took the camera back to the darkroom (wouldn't almost not fit through the staircase) to be opened under a darkroom safe light.
And then the light bulb popped ...
So - in total darkness - I opened the camera, took the paper negative out and dropped it in the developer tray. Luckily I always work from left to right so I new what tray would be the developer. After counting out loud I pulled the negative after 1 minute and dropped it in the stop and fixing tray. Then finally turned the light on to see if there was anything there. And there was!

So - for an totally unprofessional test - I was very happy, since the camera worked. the negative itself is underexposed off course, but there is a nice sharp image. I turned off the light again and loaded the camera again in total darkness with the 20x24" paper and taped the camera up again.

This week (Thursday?) I'll make a real exposure and will develop properly (as far as possible with this size since I don't have a tray for it). I hope I'll find the time this week to finish this paper negative and post before Saturday, making the deadline of this MSA at the end of this month.
To be continued ...

This is the test negative (underexposed & improperly scanned):
82962 82942

ajmiller
02-24-2014, 03:46 AM
Bert, that IS impressive - and the result is excellent. Well done.

02-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Well done Bert. Can't wait to see a huge negative from that camera.

One week left people! Shoot 'em if ya got 'em!

NedL
02-24-2014, 05:20 PM
... almost not fit through the staircase... :D Fantastic, that is a huge pinhole camera!
Looks like it is working very well. And you had an adventure developing, but it worked! Can't wait to see results from the BIG negative. That will be a challenge to develop and also to scan or photograph or contact print!

02-24-2014, 06:03 PM
Can't wait to see results from the BIG negative. That will be a challenge to develop and also to scan or photograph or contact print!

Normally I design, calculate, draw, ... everything before I start building, but not this time, not this MSA.

I'll expose the BIG negative rather properly and will unload it in the dark. I've made a water resitant bench for my dark room, that is big enough for this 20x24" negative. So I'm gonna lay if flat on the bench and will use a sponge soaked in developer to "wet wipe develop" it for about 2 minutes or so.
Same thing with Stop and Fix. Then into the bath tub with clean water for rinsing.
I hope it will work out ...

Scanning might be a bit of a problem. So I think I'll use a d*****l camera to photograph it. Using PS to make a positive of the paper negative, I can determine if it did work out all right.
If so, I'll make a contact print later. First I must find a glass plate big enough and determine the right exposure for contact printing this sandwich.

Previously I used to strip the plastic back layer of the photo paper and then rub the paper back with lineseed oil to make it more transparant for alt-photo techniques using UV light (or direct sun light) for long exposure times decreased by 50%. Should be fun too with this size.

Bert from Holland

Thomas Bertilsson
02-26-2014, 09:32 PM
I just posted four images in the MSA gallery, from my recent Lake Superior trip at the end of January.

I have this little cheesy Minolta P&S camera, not sure of the model, but it's the one that you click one button and the camera does the rest. It's kind of beat up and ugly looking, but I was surprised at the quality of the photographs.

The camera was loaded at the beginning of January for some pond hockey games in Minneapolis, but I ended up shooting the bulk of the film up North. Ilford FP4+ processed in D76 1+1 and subsequently scanned using Vue Scan and an Epson flatbed. I haven't tweaked the images much in Photoshop, mainly just slight contrast adjustment, dust spotting, and toning that resembles what I do in the darkroom.

This was fun!

sly
02-27-2014, 02:06 AM
83193 Fallen Fan Palm

In the last week I made a couple more contributions to the MSA gallery. In the first one I had wanted to include the healthy fan palm leaves, as well as the fallen one, and was pleased they were in the frame. I'm getting better at judging what will be included in the pinhole frame.
The second one is my favorite WPC neg from our trip.

I just want to tip my hat to those who routinely scan their negs. I rarely shoot colour, and scanning, dust spotting, and attempting to colour correct these negs (the scanner adds a magenta cast to everything) was a huge pain - in my back, neck, and shoulder, as well as the PITA that keeps me away from digital work anyway. I've not got the stamina, nor patience to do this on a frequent basis.

02-28-2014, 06:28 AM
.... This week (Thursday?) I'll make a real exposure and will develop properly (as far as possible with this size since I don't have a tray for it). I hope I'll find the time this week to finish this paper negative and post before Saturday, making the deadline of this MSA at the end of this month.
To be continued ...

Yesterday (Thursday) was all rain and rain and rain ....
Luckily I had some time this morning because I have to work midday and evening (giving a course). And it is dry this morning!! Even with a very little sunshine through the times every odd moment. So - after finishing preparations for the course) - I took out the 20x24" cardboard pinhole camera and posted it on a table, overlooking my garden. I openend the shutter at 10:10 AM and need an exposure of at least 4 hours (@ f-number 1/1000, ISO 2).
I have to leave in 15 minutes, so I instructed my wife in how to close "the shutter" (= piece of cardboard + tape) in 2 hours and putting the camera inside before it starts to rain again. I hope to be home at 22.00 (10.00 PM) tonight so I can sponge develop the paper negative (20x24"), fix it and flush it before midnight. I'll make a probably bad looking digital photo of the negative, reverse in PS and post the result here before midnight, February 28th - still in time before the closure of this MSA.
Pray for me that it will work out. If not I'll post it on Saturday (one day late). And if the paper negative is any good I'll make a proper contact print later.

At least here is some proof that I made the shot itself today:

83273 83274 83275 83276 83277

02-28-2014, 03:48 PM
Well, as this is winding to a close I have to say that it's going to be near impossible to judge this thing. There have been so many great images and so much creativity from people to make them.

Bert: I know there is at least one other person who might need to post images tomorrow. I've got plans for the weekend so I am planning to review all the images and pick a "winner" on Sunday evening (PST) so if there are any stragglers tomorrow they'll get looked at.

02-28-2014, 07:04 PM
Well, as this is winding to a close I have to say that it's going to be near impossible to judge this thing. There have been so many great images and so much creativity from people to make them.

Bert: I know there is at least one other person who might need to post images tomorrow. I've got plans for the weekend so I am planning to review all the images and pick a "winner" on Sunday evening (PST) so if there are any stragglers tomorrow they'll get looked at.

That would be nice, thank you.

The paper negative was exposed during for 4 hours today. It was a cloudy day with the first 10 minutes some little sunshine. I developed the paper negative this evening. I used a sponge and old, used & left over Maco developer in the dark. I sponged for about 4 minutes with the developer, then sponged Stop for 2 minutes, followed with 10 minutes Fix sponging. Then I flushed the large negative in the bath tub for about 30 minutes.

Using the sponge was surprisingly easy. It is strange to see the developing starting in places where I started sponging. It looked a bit like this:
83327

And WOW: what is this size for a negative impressive!! I've never used such a large negative (20x24 inch), but it makes me wanting to get me a real ULF camera even more!! You don't even need a magnifier to see what's on it.

I dried the negative for an hour and then tried to take a digital photo of it. But I haven't found yet how to do this without lamps or whatever reflecting in the negative. I'll give it an other try tomorrow. Maybe I'll think of something tonight.

Here are the first (lousy) results, and yes: posted on February 28th before the official deadline.

83328 83329
I'll try po post a decent "scan" before Sunday night. The original negative is much better and sharper than this poor photograph of it ...

And about the rules of this MSA: Is was cheap, I used a cheap camera and it was a challenge.

The camera is solely made out of old cardboard and outdated Duct tape (not so sticky anymore). No lens used but a simple pinhole (about 0.6 mm) giving me an f-stop of f 1/1000. The photo paper 20x24" is very, very old Ilford RC paper from an opened box that was given to me. I think it expired about 20 years ago. The developer was leftover from a bottle I used before to develop film sheets, as was the Stop and Fix.

The total cost of this project was \$0.00 (zero). The fun I had was priceless. This was a fun MSA that inspired me to go further than I did before. I know now that I really can build a camera this big ( next one will be made out of wood), and that I can get the exposure right with paper negatives.
So thank you Adelorenzo for this great assignment!!!

Bert from Holland

03-01-2014, 12:35 PM
I'll try po post a decent "scan" before Sunday night. The original negative is much better and sharper than this poor photograph of it ...

I have tried to make a better photo of the negative, since I can't scan 20x24 inch negatives. But there was always the problem of reflections. This is glossy Ilford photo paper. Lesson learned: don't use glossy paper for paper negatives.

The best try was my daughter holding the negative and have her moving around the room until there were (almost) no reflections:

83356 using Photoshop to make negative positive: 83357

Maybe this will also help you to get an idea of the size of this negative.

I made a close up shots to show you more details:
83359 blow up section: 83360

The image is rather sharp, but not as sharp as I hoped for (even for pinhole). But this may be due to the fact that the camera is very light and very big and might have been moved by wind during the 4 hours exposure. I'll make a still life scene indoors and shoot it with this camera to test it.

I'll also make a contact print of this negative in the near future. First I must locate a glass pane larger than 20x24".
I'll also peel the paper apart: separating the image from the plastic back layer and rub it in with lineseed oil, until it is fully soaked. This will make the paper negative almost transparent, thus reducing exposure times by half for contact printing with alt-photo techniques.
83361
This works best when the photo has almost dried, but is still fresh.

Well, this will conclude my contribution to this MSA, never thought I would enter a large negative in the end. But the fun isn't over yet. I'll continue on this road ...

Bert from Holland

micwag2
03-01-2014, 12:49 PM
Did you try using a polarizer to get rid of the light reflections? It works when taking a photo in a frame with glass. Can't see why it won't work for a glossy negative.

StoneNYC
03-01-2014, 11:13 PM
Few! Last minute submission....

It's lame but, this was a hail marry pass...

LEGO camera :) built with the little one while she was making a fun lego friends setup I was making a boring square box with lots of light leaks, no focussing, and terrible aim.

Shot on my last box of FP100C45 Fujirpoid film, as I have no film developing equipment where I am so the Polaroid and a cell phone snapshot of the Polaroid was all I had, but it was fun to build a lego camera, if I had more time and more Legos I would have made it focus able and more light right but as is it was fixed at about 15 feet on an ultra wide angle 75mm lens.

83408
83409
83410
83411
83412
83413
83414
83415
And the two image submissions...
8341683417

03-02-2014, 02:17 AM
Few! Last minute submission....
LEGO camera :) built with the little one while she was making a fun lego friends setup I was making a boring square box with lots of light leaks, no focussing, and terrible aim.

Shot on my last box of FP100C45 Fujirpoid film, as I have no film developing equipment where I am so the Polaroid and a cell phone snapshot of the Polaroid was all I had, but it was fun to build a lego camera, if I had more time and more Legos I would have made it focus able and more light right but as is it was fixed at about 15 feet on an ultra wide angle 75mm lens.

Hi Stone,
Nice admission!! Lose the lens and make it a pinhole camera to make it really cheap. It can be done, see:
http://www.foundphotography.com/category/cameras/lego-cameras/
or
http://petapixel.com/2011/03/03/simple-pinhole-camera-created-with-ordinary-lego-pieces/
or
http://www.diyphotography.net/fully-automated-lego-pinhole-camera/
or
http://www.diyphotography.net/you-can-build-everything-with-lego-even-a-pinhole-camera/

Can't we extend this MSA, since it is an inspiration for new and creative phoyography? :D

StoneNYC
03-02-2014, 10:21 AM
Hi Stone,
Nice admission!! Lose the lens and make it a pinhole camera to make it really cheap. It can be done, see:
http://www.foundphotography.com/category/cameras/lego-cameras/
or
http://petapixel.com/2011/03/03/simple-pinhole-camera-created-with-ordinary-lego-pieces/
or
http://www.diyphotography.net/fully-automated-lego-pinhole-camera/
or
http://www.diyphotography.net/you-can-build-everything-with-lego-even-a-pinhole-camera/

Can't we extend this MSA, since it is an inspiration for new and creative phoyography? :D

The winner could choose to, it's definitely a reason to play around with gear you normally wouldn't. And on the cheap! But it's an experiment in testing your abilities.

I have to admit I do wish there wasn't as much snow because then I could test the less contrasty image and see what I can get with my big box pinhole camera, but ultimately I think the 11x14 image was awesome but needs to wait till I have a dedicated darkroom, that said, I now have JOBO tubes from a trade that are large enough and I can get rid of the Cibichrome tubes that don't seem to work that well for film.

03-02-2014, 10:25 AM
The winner could choose to, it's definitely a reason to play around with gear you normally wouldn't. And on the cheap! But it's an experiment in testing your abilities.

I have to admit I do wish there wasn't as much snow because then I could test the less contrasty image and see what I can get with my big box pinhole camera, but ultimately I think the 11x14 image was awesome but needs to wait till I have a dedicated darkroom, that said, I now have JOBO tubes from a trade that are large enough and I can get rid of the Cibichrome tubes that don't seem to work that well for film.

The winner could, but the thing is, it's nice and inspiring to have a complete new theme every MSA.
But what's stopping us to make a new thread about this theme after this MSA is over? Would be nice to hear now and again from you guys what you tinkered and shot.

Bert from Holland

fretlessdavis
03-02-2014, 10:26 AM
Few! Last minute submission....

It's lame but, this was a hail marry pass...

LEGO camera :) built with the little one while she was making a fun lego friends setup I was making a boring square box with lots of light leaks, no focussing, and terrible aim.

Shot on my last box of FP100C45 Fujirpoid film, as I have no film developing equipment where I am so the Polaroid and a cell phone snapshot of the Polaroid was all I had, but it was fun to build a lego camera, if I had more time and more Legos I would have made it focus able and more light right but as is it was fixed at about 15 feet on an ultra wide angle 75mm lens.

83408
83409
83410
83411
83412
83413
83414
83415
And the two image submissions...
8341683417

That's pretty awesome. I'm sure you've seen the focusing box camera made out of legos that's floating around?

Might have to go visit my parents so I can dig out my childhood legos, haha.

StoneNYC
03-02-2014, 11:35 AM
That's pretty awesome. I'm sure you've seen the focusing box camera made out of legos that's floating around?

Might have to go visit my parents so I can dig out my childhood legos, haha.

I've seen it, but had the idea before that, and mine would have been similar on design but I 1 didn't have enough time and 2 didn't have enough Legos without taking the "girl" Legos from the little blond there in the background... But I was allowed to use the "boy" Legos HAH! ;)

fretlessdavis
03-02-2014, 12:06 PM
Hah! Legos were the only thing I played with as a kid... We still have building contests between my dad, myself, and my brother sometimes on holidays. I might have to try out something similar, except with focus and normal film holders. Maybe 5x7 or 8x10, too. Give myself a chance to play with bigger negatives.