Greetings fellow APUGers.


If you have not read the post yet, you will find that Sean has implemented a new minimum subscription rate per year of $24.

A few things about this increase. First I really have to question anyone's interest in traditional photography if they think that is to high. Folks we are talking 6.5 cents per day. Considering we are really talking about a $12 increase it is about 3 cents. Most of us can find that under the cushions and furniture at home.

For myself this site has provided enormous benefits. I have made new friendships and began many new professional relationships. It has encouraged me to attend workshops and travel to meet others interested in traditional photography. It has advanced my own craft and increased my appreciation of many methods, viewpoints and approaches to the medium.

There is no where else on the internet where there is such a world wide group of experts that will gladly answer any question, and share their knowledge. The ability to be able to interact and seek information from innovators such as Sandy King, Les McClean, Patrick Gainer, Michael Smith, and a myriad of others is worth far more then $24. Besides these folks I could list at least 100 names that come to mind that have worked in areas of chemistry, darkroom innovations, printing, alternative methods, etc all of them available in this forum.

This is a forum of varied backgrounds and cultures that has regular contributors from around the world. Yet Sean has handled the site with patience and an open mind, seeking advice and consensus that keeps this site on target and relevant.

I have said in many previous posts that APUG will probably be seen in 10 years as the single most important factor that kept Analog and alternative photography from slipping into oblivion. The potential of this site to influence and work with mfgs is just beginning to be seen. I feel that by not subscribing even at the student level is helping to bring on the slow death of analog photography.

Now if this site was brand new and Sean was asking for subscriptions to help with his income I would probably be dubious. But I challenge anyone to question his sincerity and motives if you have been an active participant for more then a few months.

I understand financial constraints one can be under. But I think the value so far outweighs the subscription cost any comparison is ludicrous.

I personally have put my money where my mouth is. I have sent in a subscription at $100 (27.3 cents a day or $1.71 a week). Personally I find APUG to an invaluable resource and wish it to continue. Three years ago I could not have commited that amount. Today I am able to. Next year may be a different story.

The important thing is that if you have gotten anything out of this site and want to see traditional photography continue as a vibrant art form, any amount you can spare is worth it, be it $1 or the yearly subscription rate.


Thanks for reading this long post,

Jim Chinn

Not a problem for me - this site is well worth US$24.

Obviously everyone will be making their own judgement on the value of APUG to them, and this is as it should be. For me, however, it is worth a great deal and I am wholeheartedly in agreement with Jim. I have also subscribed at over the $24 level already and will probably increase it again next year. When I look at my expenses, APUG is among the lowest and most valuable.

I applaud Sean for taking this project on and for dedicating so much time to it. I also appreciate that he deserves to make an income off of his efforts and that these subscriptions are the most community minded way to have this happen.

I posted this on the other thread concerning the rise in subscriptions, it belongs here also:

What each of us is willing to pull out of our pockets for anything is an extremely personal decision. This includes pronouncements on what constitutes an "insignificant" amount of money, again an extremely personal judgement

To question anyone's judgement of cost is bound to be offensive. I've been involved with a number of websites where these discussions have begun and they have all degenerated quickly into flame wars, hurt feelings and the loss of members.


-Bob

My opinion :

I just renewed at $12.00US. Had the subscription increase happened just before instead of just after my anniversary date, I would still have suscribed. $24.00US is not even the price of a magazine subscripton. Unlike a magazine, APUG is an interactive site filled with assistance, advice, community, and support. All of these are available for us to consume in any amount that we choose. APUG is like an unending analog photo smorgasbord. It's still cheap at the new rate.

cheers to all

What a good posting Jim, I agree with your sentiments entirely, since I became a member of this forum I have derived so much pleasure, knowledge, interest, and entertainment from it I am very happy to have become a subscriber recently, and will continue to do so. The only problem I have with it is I spend far too much time on it.

I subscribe as well as donate when I can. If I had more money I would donate more. I get more out of apug than any magazine or internet photo source. 24.00 a year is fine with me.

I don't think I could state it any better than Mr. Chinn. I can only add my personal experience. I've asked many questions on the forum and always received friendly and helpful answers. I don't know of anywhere else where I can ask a question and have several answers within minutes or hours. The availability of knowledge here is more than worth the price of admission.

Mega dittos to all of the above. Well worth the money spent.

For once, I agree with Laz.

No probem; a great site.

First I really have to question anyone's interest in traditional photography if they think that is to high. Folks we are talking 6.5 cents per day. Considering we are really talking about a $12 increase it is about 3 cents. Most of us can find that under the cushions and furniture at home.

The only thing I'll say about this -- interest isn't always the issue. My budget is so tight, it's been four months since I've bought a single roll or sheet of new film. Due to some generous gifts, I have film in hand at present, but no funds even to process the C-41 material; yesterday, I paid for negs and scan for a roll of 35 mm color film (that I can't process myself -- can't afford the chemistry, barring other issues), the first time I've spent money on processing since June.

If I had to pay $24 to renew right now, I couldn't do it; spending that amount would mean not paying some important bill.

And it's not, and has never been, a matter of interest, for me -- but we each have the budget we have; mine includes one income that, some months, requires trimming groceries to keep the lights on. It's likely to get worse, with health insurance costs going up every year, fuel costs up, other costs up because of fuel costs, and so forth.

If I have to abandon my gallery here at APUG because I can't renew, I'll regret it -- but I'll do it, because the bills are more important.

Donald,

I understand exactly what your saying, going into winter here in Northern Montana, my buying habits will change drastically, not due to interest, but due to budget constraints!

But I am sure some of us can help if needed, not charity, but investment into the quality information you provide.

Dave

I'm now in a two subscription household...

thanks Sean, and everyone else who makes this a great place to hang out.

Ian

Sean should give Donald a year subscription.

From time to time, a google has led me to some facet of APUG. As I become more serious about something that has haunted me most of my life (photography, not subscription costs...) I appreciate the resources that are out there. All it took was reading the story of how Sean has worked to make this site available and strives to improve it for us, and conscience called to subscribe.

Yes, finance is a personal matter. All knowledge and resources are not free for it costs to provide them. Use of them often comes with an obligation, especially if we wish to see them flourish in the future. Or, being cheap, we could all wait until the site was filled with blinkey, colorful and obnoxious ads and popups to pay the freight. Subscription is definately better....

I agree with Laz, but I agree with Jim. In general, each person needs to weigh up if the subscription is worth it to them, balanced against their concience. There are exceptions, but the actual $$ can't be the issue for the marjority. I'd love to see some statistics of repeat visitors (members) vs subscribers. How many 'members' come here everyday?

It was discussed at length ways to accomodate people in Donalds situation and those where it's silly to send $12 (at the time of discussions) due to value erosion due to the cost incured in sending the money. Don't know what happened to these schemes, but it really can't be that hard to identify the CONTRIBUTORS that warrant assistance.

I don't know when my subscription is up but I'll be kicking in a few $ extra to cover the cost of transferring the money. Most non-US people also get gouged on the exchange rates once that Paypal charge hits our local account, but in my case, this is the 2nd site I've actually subscribed to since joining the www in '96 (the other one recently died.. reason unknown at this stage!)

Not to mention how easily "fpug" trips off the tongue, compared to "apug."

Not to mention how easily "fpug" trips off the tongue, compared to "apug."

Trips is a good word. I was thinking lurch and stumble.

Sean should give Donald a year subscription.


Donald doesn't need to worry about renewal. He is a valuable resource to APUG (and any other forum he visits) and he will be taken care of. I do worry about others who might find the increase onerous but lets deal with that on a one by one situation.


tim in san jose

Members are always more than welcome to open a dialogue with me off-line regarding financial issues, and it would be confidential as well..

I just want to say that when I have taken care of my current credit card debacle I will be able to become a member. It will probably be accompanied by a Christmas gift. This is the first photographic group I go to, and if all the others vanish, I won't cry a lot.

$24 is not much, but I am alarmed when costs double. It bothers me, too, that this supports so many others that don't subscribe. Finally, in the couple years that I've been here, the content has been diluted. I used to find a large percentage of the topics interesting. Recently when I returned from vacation there were over 4000 new posts and it took but a few minutes to sort through them all. I only felt the need to open half a dozen.