Mixing Palladium Sol. 3

[Jorge]

Well, all I know is that the salt I use with nothing added works great. After 4 years of using it without problems I am pretty confident it has nothing else but salt in the box.....

[Photo Engineer]

Well, all I know is that the salt I use with nothing added works great. After 4 years of using it without problems I am pretty confident it has nothing else but salt in the box.....

Frankly Jorge, that is my motto as well.

If it works, use it.

PE

[Kerik]

I've used both regular table salt and non-iodized salt for making sodium palladium chloride. They both work just fine.

[scootermm]

Id be VERY interested in going in on a group order.

[eggshell]

Thanks to all. I'm definately interested in a group purchase.

[Jim Noel]

If you want to be sure you have pure sodium chloride at a low price, buy Kosher Salt in the supermarket.

[Photo Engineer]

If you want to be sure you have pure sodium chloride at a low price, buy Kosher Salt in the supermarket.

That is probably the best bet!

PE

[Shinnya]

Hi everyone:

I just posted this message in the other thread. Ray and I are oraganizing a group purchase of Palladium Chloride. Let us know how much you would like to order:

-----
I contacted both Artcraft and Engelhard today and got price quote. Here's the deal:

Artcraft
250-500g: $8.80/g
1 kg: $8.30/g

Engelhard
250g: $8.00
500g: $7.75
1 kg: $7.50

I am asking a rep from Engelhard about other costs associated with a purchase. I did not contact the other place overseas since I am very reluctant to send a huge amount of money to overseas where I cannot speak the language and cannot get hold of them locally. Plus, there is 20% tax for importing Palladium if you do it legitimately. So the difference will not be worth taking a risk (not to mention, I do not want to take a risk with other people's money).

Also, I am hoping everyone would agree on a minimum order of 25 grams. That way, we can ask them to pack individually when we order. I would assume anyone who is interested in this purchase would be OK with this.

Let us know how much you would like to order. Again the more the better! Hope to hear from you soon.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

[eggshell]

I promise this will be the last question.

I search in vain for Kosher Salt. I found Maldon Sea Salt. It says Pure Flakey Crystals, No Additive. It doesn't mention if it's iodized or not. Do you think this is okay?

Thanks.

[EricNeilsen]

Hello all,

I am soon planning on mixing my own Palladium Sol. 3. Since it would be an expensive lesson if I mess it up, please help me with these questions:-

1. Where can I get the best price for Palladium Chloride?
2. Since 50ml sol. 3 is a relatively small amount to mix, is there a cause for concern on the accurate measurements of the chemicals & water?
3. Does the Palladium Chloride I buy come in a little brown dropper bottle?
4. Can I use common table salt for sodium chloride?
5. Is the water temperature critical during mixing and does the mixtures dissolve easily?

Once again, thanks for the help.

1. You have gotten several answer there that are good, but I have always been able to order from Engelhard without having to order 25 or 50 g. Their order criteria is based on dollars spent. If you are ordering platinum or gold as well, there would be no need to bulk buy.

2. If you buy from Engelhard the weight they send will be accurate, so the only unknown would be your salt. Unless you really mess up the ratio of 5 grams of salt (that is NaCl) to 3.5 g PdCl2, you should experience no problems. Too little salt and your Palladium will not be able to go into solution, Too much and you can see it crystallize as solid particles and you will experience a speed change. I have seen it mixed with almost twice the slat required and make fine prints.

3) If you buy from Engelhard it will come in frosted plastic bottles, sealed with tape and a wax seal. Brown bottles can be purcahsed from Pharmacies, and Health Food stores in the health and beauty area; with or without droppers.

4) Common table salt will work fine, but how expensive is good clean NaCl from Artcraft really? If you are buying anything else from Mike pick some up, if not DON'T sweat it.

5) to mix it, start by adding your salt to warm water and dissolve it first. Then add you PdCl2 to it. Salt will easily dissolve in water but PdCl2 will not, add it to you salt solution. Warm is good , hot is not really needed since you use it far below saturation. It should sit over night to reach full equilibrium

PD #3 implies a B&S nomenclature,and a specific weight to volume.

Have fun.

Eric

[donbga]

1. Unless you really mess up the ratio of 5 grams of salt (that is NaCl) to 3.5 g PdCl2, you should experience no problems.


Eric,

How much water is used for this ratio?

Thanks,

Don Bryant

[Shinnya]

Don,

I mixed PC and SC to 275ml (55ml x 5) of distilled water. The total is about 300ml. 55ml of water per 5g of PC and 3.5g of SC. Happy printing!

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

[donbga]

Don,

I mixed PC and SC to 275ml (55ml x 5) of distilled water. The total is about 300ml. 55ml of water per 5g of PC and 3.5g of SC. Happy printing!

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Thanks! This sounds like the Arentz ratio.

Don

[Shinnya]

Don,

I just assumed that was what you are looking for. Yes it is 15% solution. I am not quite sure how to make 20% solution though. But mine works fine so far.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi



Thanks! This sounds like the Arentz ratio.

Don

[eggshell]

5) to mix it, start by adding your salt to warm water and dissolve it first. Then add you PdCl2 to it. Salt will easily dissolve in water but PdCl2 will not, add it to you salt solution. Warm is good , hot is not really needed since you use it far below saturation. It should sit over night to reach full equilibrium

Eric[/QUOTE]

Thanks Eric. That's exactly how I mixed mine yesterday. Today I printed with the newly mixed sol.3. I noticed a slight increase in printing speed (about 10% faster). But I got a little shock noticing I'm getting fog and a little low contrast on the print. I realised it could be due to my 6 month old F.O. Sol. no. 2 that's causing the fog. The film edge didn't clear too well. It has a colourless stain like watermark. That's fog, isn't it? Will print again with new Sol. 2 tomorrow. It's a learning experience!

Thanks again Eric.

[EricNeilsen]

Eric,

How much water is used for this ratio?

Thanks,

Don Bryant

Don, The gram ratio of NaCl to PdCl2 is 5g/3.5g, but the mole ratio is 2:1. The amount of water added will change the molar concentration of the solution. I mix mine to make 40ml. I belive that B&S list that same amount to make 55ml. At the concentration I mix it is a .7M solution , B&S is lower. Since there was some question as to the purity of the salt one might get from the store such as Mortons, for example where there may be some weight that is NOT NaCl, an error on the side of slightly more weight is GOOD. THat assure you that you have enough NaCl to complete the complex solution.

I haven't seen where a little NaCl will have serious adverse effect; just a lose of print speed.

Eric

[EricNeilsen]

Don, The gram ratio of NaCl to PdCl2 is 5g/3.5g, but the mole ratio is 2:1. The amount of water added will change the molar concentration of the solution. I mix mine to make 40ml. I belive that B&S list that same amount to make 55ml. At the concentration I mix it is a .7M solution , B&S is lower. Since there was some question as to the purity of the salt one might get from the store such as Mortons, for example where there may be some weight that is NOT NaCl, an error on the side of slightly more weight is GOOD. THat assure you that you have enough NaCl to complete the complex solution.

I haven't seen where a little NaCl will have serious adverse effect; just a lose of print speed.

Eric
Oh My, Yes that is right. 5 g PdCl to 3.5 NaCl. Damn, I should have just cut and pasted out of my book. I really need to download and reread these little windows. Goosh, maybe that is how Tom Millea's book got back asswards?

[EricNeilsen]

5) to mix it, start by adding your salt to warm water and dissolve it first. Then add you PdCl2 to it. Salt will easily dissolve in water but PdCl2 will not, add it to you salt solution. Warm is good , hot is not really needed since you use it far below saturation. It should sit over night to reach full equilibrium

Eric

Thanks Eric. That's exactly how I mixed mine yesterday. Today I printed with the newly mixed sol.3. I noticed a slight increase in printing speed (about 10% faster). But I got a little shock noticing Iamb getting fog and a little low contrast on the print. I realised it could be due to my 6 month old F.O. Sol. no. 2 that's causing the fog. The film edge didn't clear too well. It has a colourless stain like watermark. That's fog, isn't it? Will print again with new Sol. 2 tomorrow. It's a learning experience!

Thanks again Eric.[/QUOTE]


If you are getting fog, that should be quickly remedied by using some 3% H2O2. If you are printing 8x10's or smaller with very little or no platinum, 1 drop of diluted 3% should give you clean highlights. If you have some Potassium Ferricyanide, mix a small amount in small distilled water and add a drop of your ferric. If it shows a blue precipitate, your ferric has much ferrous in it. Brown is the color it should show if it is good.

[EricNeilsen]

PALLADIUM SALTS

Palladium Chloride (Sodium Tetrachloropalladite)
(a .70 molar solution)

To prepare the palladium solution, add 3.5 grams of sodium chloride to 35ml of warm distilled water (90°F). Now add 5 grams of palladium chloride to that solution. You should then add water to bring the total volume to 40ml. This solution, when stored in a brown bottle and has an indefinite shelf life. Another option is to use Sodium tetrachloropalladite. This palladium salt already has the NaCl2 added. If you use this chemical, mix 8.5 grams with 40ml of warm distilled water (90 F).\


The weaker 15% solution is balanced for B&S weaker solution of FO. I mix mine strong than that supplied by Dick.

Again sorry for my misplaced 5 and 3.5 in earlier post.

Eric

[eggshell]

If you are getting fog, that should be quickly remedied by using some 3% H2O2. If you are printing 8x10's or smaller with very little or no platinum, 1 drop of diluted 3% should give you clean highlights. If you have some Potassium Ferricyanide, mix a small amount in small distilled water and add a drop of your ferric. If it shows a blue precipitate, your ferric has much ferrous in it. Brown is the color it should show if it is good.

Eric,

Thanks again. That explaination is a little too quick for my sticky brain. What is H202? Do you mean to add 3% H202 to the mixed solution before pouring onto the paper for brushing?

As I mentioned yesterday, the masked area left me with a colourless watermark-like stain. Again, the stain appears today even with newly mixed Sol. 2. So I did a test by applying a drop of Ferric Oxalate No 1 and a drop of No 2 on separate piece of paper. Developed & clear as I usually would. NO STAIN! My PO should be okay. My brush is thoroughly wash with HCA. Can't be that my coating area is too bright. The only thing I can think of that could go wrong is my palladium sol.3. I remember in earlier thread that Jorge had the same fog problem before and couldn't nail down where the fault was. Is my Palladium Sol.3 messed-up?

Appreciate your kind response.