Hi,

Can some one who has a Kodak Panoram 3A tell me what size film you actually need for it?

There is one for sale here in Sydney that is in great condition, the fellow selling it says it tales 120 film but all the web sites I can find say it takes a larger size.

There are also a couple of 4A (? film) and a 1A (? film) in slightly rougher condition, can anyone confirm the film size they need?

I want to get one of these cameras to try my hand at panorama format but want one that I can get film for (probably JandC) without having to cut it myself as I do not have a dark room yet.

Any advice or information would be very much appreciated.

Regards

Brendan

Do not have this camera, but the book "Kodak Cameras - The First Hundred Years" states:

No. 1 Panoram 105 rollfilm, format 2 1/4 x 7" Manf. 1900 - 1926
No. 3A Panoram 122 rollfim, format 3 1/4 x 10 3/8" Manf. 1926 - 1928
No. 4 Panoram 103 rollfilm, format 3 1/2 by 12" Manf. 1899 - 1924

If you have details of the lens and shutter fitted to the camera, I could date it more accurately.

Regards,

David

Hi David,

Thanks for that, these cameras have the moving slit lens, no shutter as such so I don't think it will be possible to get an accurate date.

Thanks all the same.

Brendan

The number used to indicate negative size, and thus film, before Kodak started numbering films.

1 =120
1a = 116
2c = 130
3 = 118
3a = 122
Other than those it gets really confusing

The Brownie's, Bullseyes, Kodets, and Cartridge Kodaks follow different numbering schemes.

You may be able to substitute 120 for 105 in the No 1 Panoram Kodak, as the film width is the same. 122 film was available from Central Camera last time I checked, but rather dear at ~$30 a roll.

122 and 116/616 are the two sizes I wish someone would produce at a reasonable price ($10 - $15), as there are some pretty interesting cameras in those sizes. I know J and C was looking into 116 a while back, but nothing seems to have come of it.

Film for Classics sells them for about $20/roll. Check out their website, http://www.filmforclassics.com/

122 and 116/616 are the two sizes I wish someone would produce at a reasonable price ($10 - $15), as there are some pretty interesting cameras in those sizes. I know J and C was looking into 116 a while back, but nothing seems to have come of it.

If you have a spool and backing paper then you can roll your own 116/616 using 70mm unperforated. Film choice isn't that great today but J&C had/has Efke in B&W.

Many users, of which I am one, have made simple adaptations to make these cameras use 120 film instead of 122. This may be the case with the one you see advertised.

[QUOTE=David H. Bebbington]
No. 3A Panoram 122 rollfim, format 3 1/4 x 10 3/8" Manf. 1926 - 1928
No. 4 Panoram 103 rollfilm, format 3 1/2 by 12" Manf. 1899 - 1924

3A film is 3-5/8 in width and was made until about 1970, 3 1/4'' net image width
The Panorams may/probably used paper backing specific to the frame length. IIRC 4 exposure and 6 or 8 exp rolls were sold.
BTW I have a 4A but (I surmise) when that film was discontinued [per above] the owner installed pieces of wood to allow 122 film, I assume that for standard 3A cameras, to be used. i've tried sheetfilm stock cut to the correct width but it is too stiff to use on spools without staying close to the darkroom.

Ed, assuming you have at least two spools, or at least one and the resources to duplicate it, the easiest way to feed cameras that need film wider than 70 mm is probably to cut down aerial film. The 9 1/2" size will give two 122/124 rolls (same width, different length for different frame size) and not quite a 120 (could get a strip wide enough for 127 and leave less waste, though), etc., while the 5" size will give one strip of anything narrower. Cutting in the dark is a pain, but not too horrible with a roll-to-roll slitter (you could even fabricate one to work in daylight, if you were doing this a lot, say to feed a Cirkut camera in one of the smaller sizes).

Once you have the film, you'll need backing; Exeter paper seems ideal for this. It's very similar to the papers used for commercial 120 films, and though somewhat expensive, it's durable enough to reuse a number of times and comes in a width that will make a lot of rolls from a minimum purchase. Hand marking the framing numbers is easy enough, just measure the camera's frame, add something for the space between (I'd recommend 1/2 inch or more for most of these old formats, to allow for light sneaking under the film at the ends and fogging around the pin roller).

If my one big-roll camera weren't a No. 3 Box Brownie, I'd probably have done some of this by now, including obtaining a multi-roll size Paterson tank and adapting a Paterson or Universal reel for larger film sizes.

Thanks for the help Don
Where can I find Exeter paper? I have been saving 120 backing paper toward an attempt to glue them on a bias to make wider strips and distribute the lap, but that is a grasping-at-straws thing.
I have also thought about a slitter to no good end- My best shot is to rig a razor blade(s) and attempt to pull the film thru it/them. Again, I just gotta get huevos to overcome the fear-of-frustration factor
regards
Ed

Thanks for the help Don
Where can I find Exeter paper? I have been saving 120 backing paper toward an attempt to glue them on a bias to make wider strips and distribute the lap, but that is a grasping-at-straws thing.
I have also thought about a slitter to no good end- My best shot is to rig a razor blade(s) and attempt to pull the film thru it/them. Again, I just gotta get huevos to overcome the fear-of-frustration factor
regards
Ed

Semper/Exeter Paper Company (http://www.semperexeter.com/Products.html)

If you drop in over at nelsonfoto.com and search for "Spartus Full-Vue" you'll see a slitter setup that was made to convert 120 to 127; something similar could be fabricated for cutting larger film -- and yes, it's pretty close to pulling the film through a slot with razor blades at the correct position. Also, look around for designs for "film slitters" for making 16 mm or Minox film from 120 or 35 mm -- there are a lot of them out there, and what works for them will work for you. There was also a posting there with a direct source for the correct Exeter paper product to make backing, and I gave some basic information on how you'd go about fabricating spools if you have one to copy or only dimensions.

I'd suggest getting some blades for rotary cutters (from an office supply store) and a plastic rolling pin (from a kitchen store) -- pull the film from spool to spool over the rolling pin with pressure on a bar holding the rolling blades, and you'll get clean cuts without scratching the film, and there won't be so much drag you'll give yourself blisters operating the cutter. Build this into a light tight box, and you won't even have to stand in the dark while you crank the handle...

Do a *really* good job with this, and you could actually make some money selling "reloads" for various formats, backing and paper for folks to roll onto their own spools. Film for Classics used to get $30/roll for 122 and 124, with spools -- I bet you could get $15/roll for reloads; if you get into fabricating spools, you'd sell them separately, which would help sell film (by keeping costs down, and by making spools available for cameras that don't have two).

And don't think I haven't thought about doing exactly this -- it'd cost a few hundred bucks to start up, though, and I don't have the money; nor do I think I could handle big rolls of film in my bathroom/darkroom that's got enough light leakage I can see a rough outline of my hand after only a couple minutes...

...
Where can I find Exeter paper? ...

Hi Ed,

If Semper/Exeter Paper Company has a large minimum order size (don't know - haven't tried them), you can buy it by the foot (25 foot minimum) from:

Cartoon Colour Company, Inc.
9024 Lindblade Street
Culver City, California 90232-2584
USA Phone: 800-523-3665
Fax: 310-838-8467

http://www.cartooncolour.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=302

Ask for Pookie.

Cheers,
Clarence

Thanks very much for your help. My son has access to some machine tools and tonite we will discuss spool making, so I'll add slitter building to the list- should be able to come up with something good.
regards
Ed

I meant to express thanks (profusely) to both Doug and Clarence, and I do
Ed

If you have a spool and backing paper then you can roll your own 116/616 using 70mm unperforated. Film choice isn't that great today but J&C had/has Efke in B&W.
why? agfa has newest avicolor film from 100 to 800 asa/70mm perforated and unperforated. arent there kodak unperforated film. fuji?