I recently posted on an issue with a book seller and was surprised by the amount of contact I received from those that read it, but are lurkers or members that lurk here on APUG. I give you my word that I will not “Out” you (please don’t PM me… I’m not saying :( ), but several of you have fairly substantial names in this business to say the least. Not to speak less of any member of this fine site, but your presence would certainly help in giving this community, and perhaps the analog process, even more sustained credibility. A couple of you mentioned “malcontents” among some other things, but isn’t that what any community is about? As you have seen and communicated, it can be a very valuable place. Come on… this isn't ... that other place. Join in. The water is fine. We promise not to pummel you with PMs about what film and paper you use (don’t we, everyone?). One was concerned about search engines… there are ways around that as well. Just combine your first and last name... or come up with a nickname.

In any event, it would be wonderful to have you join in and make yourselves known. If not, I understand completely.

And to the rest of us… be careful what you say. You never know who’s watching.

:)

Bill

I am aware of one well known art photographer (as in s/he shoots stuff which is seen in aperture and sells for real money in galleries) who lurks here. It would be nice if these folks posted. There are only a handful (literally 5 or less) bozos posting on this site (excluding myself).

There are only a handful (literally 5 or less) bozos posting on this site (excluding myself).


Hey! Blansky already apologized to everyone....he really meant it too!! ;)

Yep you would really be surprised. At the Silver conference, most the big names told me they lurk here. I know Calumet has lurkers, I know freestyle has lurkers. The list goes on.

When I took a workshop from Gordon Hutchings, he said, "I don't do forums, because I get hate emails, and angry people who want to trash me." This could be a reason a lot of the name people don't want to be outted. Others it is the need for privacy. What ever the reason, we should respect everyone and what they want to do here on apug.

The search engine concern is very real. It can be mitigated by only using your first name or some simple nickname. Don't use your full name in any shape or form if your concerned about such things.

Brad (I'm not famous).

I know of several very high profile commercial, fashion and editorial photographers who lurk here too. A couple have also mentioned 'malcontents' as well, and have mentioned a couple other issues which I have tried to get discussion on without success.

Mostly I tell them to PM Sean.

Besides photographers, I also know of several very senior executives from Fortune 500 companies that lurk here too. They have a common interest in traditional photography but don't need to get into the 'stuff' that goes on here.

It's a shame that internet behaviours have effectively silenced potentially active members; even potential sponsors and contributors. I know I am changing my behaviour to be less confrontational with a few here to allow more of these folks to particpate without feeling assaulted by the trading of insults. I hope others here do the same.

Regards, Art.

"...and angry people who want to trash me."... we should respect everyone and what they want to do here on apug.It is true that I have seen this happen. It can be fairly difficult to deal with as it is hard enough to put yourself out there, let alone all the assaults on the ego an artist can experience. It can either thicken the skin... or wreck you. I really don't see this group as being much that way from a creative standpoint though.

I agree though that privacy needs to be respected. If something I said suggested otherwise, please forgive me.

The search engine concern is very real. Don't use your full name in any shape or form if your concerned about such things. Good point. My reasoning is more from a desire not to clog search results for those looking for my work with posts I make in forums. I agree you should say nothing in a public forum under any name that you don't want to haunt you at some other time.

Bill

Well, darn, Bill... you got me! I try so hard to blend into the wall(paper), but alas... fame... it finds me. ;)

Seriously, here's the way I see it... and this comes from the perspective of how much the members of this site have done for me... if people who have 'recognizable' names do not want people to know who they are, and would like to participate... hello! It's not that hard to set up your profile so your famous name would not be there.

Les McLean is on the forum, and posts...granted there are times when he may get negative responses, but he does it... because maybe he feels it's more important to help people out than to remain as a 'voyeur'... watching, but not contributing. I wonder where I would be in my photography if I'd never heard of him... or if people like Simon Galley and John from J&C were all watching but not talking...

So, I guess I'd have to say that it all depends on what a person can do, and how they interact with people. I can guarantee that if I ever became a 'recognizable' name, I'd be here helping people out just like I was helped by the people on this site. I'd expect to find 'difficult' people, but I suspect that the ones I'd help would way outnumber them.

So come out of the closet, whoever you are... cause frankly... I need all the help I can get.

If there are well known names frequenting APUG, then it is perfectly understandable for them to wish to retain their anonymity. As previously said however, it isn't difficult to set up an anonymous profile.
All knowledge shared on this site is valuable and it would be a shame if we were missing out for fear of a few 'bozos'.


Andy (part-time bozo).

I remember the one (and only) post that Bruce Barnbaum made here. It was exciting at the time to think that he might become a continuing contributor, but, alas, he hasn't posted again (that I am aware of). Such folks (and there are a bunch here already) are immensely worthwhile resources for many. They can also be rather classy people who, even if an occasional shot is taken at them, usually rise well above the stupid behavior of the very few, and set an excellent example.

Whoever you're referring to Bill, I hope this thread is encouraging to him/her to join in. I anticipate that it will be rewarding to that person as well as to the rest of us.

Whoever you're referring to Bill, I hope this thread is encouraging to him/her to join in.We're talking several here Jovo. I hope so too.

Bill

I'm sure glad that the Legendary David Bebbington takes time to post here ;)

(cf. http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15818 for the point).

Maybe consider the financial side of the coin in that famous photographers make some of their income by selling their knowledge, experience, insights, critiques at their workshops and lectures and don't want to give away any freebees.

Maybe consider the financial side of the coin in that famous photographers make some of their income by selling their knowledge, experience, insights, critiques at their workshops and lectures and don't want to give away any freebees.

Well, that's not exactly the best way to market yourself! ;) Cripe, if I'd have never heard of Les McLean, and I saw something about a workshop he was putting on, I can guarantee you that I would NOT have signed up for it.

Why do you think I signed up for the upcoming Arizona workshop??? It sure wasn't cause I was bored! :D

The best way to market yourself is to give people a 'preview' of what they have to gain. I'm looking right now at a number at the top of the page that says there are 12,749 members here... that's one hell of a lot of free advertising. ;)

Jeanette some come here and get grilled about their processes. While I doubt many would object to sharing simple things, it is the more complex parts that they want to retain for their workshops. Also I've seen in the past where some who are regarded as famous or semi famous get told by those who are not so skilled that they are wrong, and get blasted for trying to share information that in that not so skilled person's mind was wrong.

Yes it is a fine line. you want your business to grow, you don't want to be berated on a fourm. You want to share, but you don't want to give your livelyhood away for free. Then there are those who like your work, and those that hate it. The gamet gets endlessly debated, and you watch it unfold. I wish I could go back to just lurking here on apug like I do on many many other forums. Each of us makes a personal decision about our contributions to the posts.

I wish I could go back to just lurking here on apug like I do on many many other forums. Each of us makes a personal decision about our contributions to the posts.

so true. but isnt it within your ability to go back to lurking?
Ive found I dont really post all that much in anything aside from the LF/ULF or alt process forum (mainly because thats all I really do) but find I read alot of the different forums.

I imagine alot of these lurkers would be wonderful sources for information and also agree that a certain extent of their knowledge (from a marketing standpoint) would likely not be typed off for free into cyberspace, thats understandable.

I do agree that "higher visibility" individuals seem to garner much more criticism than the average joe/jane - the MAS/Lenswork/ViewCamera dead horse arguments come to mind - these seem to more often than not strike up some heated debates and/or arguments, which often seem to bring out the childish behavour in way too many people.

although childish behavour seems more prevalent in adulthood than childhood, anyone else noticed that? :)

Personally I get annoyed when people use avitars and don't use their real names! ;)

When getting into an online battle, it's usually the high profile/more skilled one that gives up and leaves. The 'malcontents' remain. It's funny, but it's kind of the same in the corporate world!

Look at APUG's history. There have been a few rages against some high profile/better skilled/more experienced photographers. I haven't kept track, but I'd say they all have resorted to lurking and not posting or provided any feedback anymore since their battles. I bet their detractors have stayed on actively though. Just a guess. It's a shame.

Regards, Art.

I think Aggie's and Les McLean's decision to be visible here helps them. Aggie, I subscribed to your magazine at least in part because you *are* visible. Les McLean's workshops appeal to me more now than they ever did, in part because I have such a good impression of him from his participation here. I could say the same about Roger Hicks, too.

I think it would be great if more high-profile people were visible here.

Sure, it's tempting to send the bigwigs PMs all the time, but they are people with lives and I'm sure they appreciate being given their space. I definitely appreciate their contributions here.

I think Aggie's and Les McLean's decision to be visible here helps them. Aggie, I subscribed to your magazine at least in part because you *are* visible. Les McLean's workshops appeal to me more now than they ever did, in part because I have such a good impression of him from his participation here. I could say the same about Roger Hicks, too.



Thanks JIm, from a real nobody! I wish some of the others on the magazine would do more than lurk. With me posting, I take the heat that might be directed their way. I have developed a thicker skin where apug is concerned since I was here back when only a handful of us posted regularly and there was only 300 registered members. We've come a long way. Sean should be commended for his hard work. One of the best features I have found is putting a person on ignore that really offends you. It's just hard later when you receive PM's from a different person asking why I didn't respond to such and suches remarks.

It all comes down to what kind of privacy the lurker craves. It's their decision, and their reasons. We can debate, but to what end?

While I doubt many would object to sharing simple things, it is the more complex parts that they want to retain for their workshops. Also I've seen in the past where some who are regarded as famous or semi famous get told by those who are not so skilled that they are wrong, and get blasted for trying to share information that in that not so skilled person's mind was wrong.
.

I bought Bruce Barnbaum's and Les McLean's books and read them carefully. I've read Les's contributions here whenever he's made them. Neither of those experiences would deter me in the slightest from taking a workshop with either of them if I could manage it. The 'hands on' aspect of a workshop just can't be duplicated in a book, and certainly not on an online forum.

One of the nice things about a place like apug is that there are plenty of people here who would not hesititate to heap some intense opprobrium on any who would rudely tell an expert that they were wrong.

I am here to learn more about photography; if there is anyone out there who is willing to teach then I am more than willing to learn.

What? Am I not good enough for you people?

One of the nice things about a place like apug is that there are plenty of people here who would not hesititate to heap some intense opprobrium on any who would rudely tell an expert that they were wrong.

This is true, as Aggie can testify first-hand. Same goes for Simon Galley and many others.

But, as Jeremy so aptly put it... many of us are here to learn and would be happy as clams for someone willing to share knowledge.

And "The Banana" (who actually does look like his avatar) is right, we should all look like our avatars... I do! :D (erm... I mean... I 'moo'). haha

Come up with a nickname. Wait... Oh, it's too late...