ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology : SFX Film / ULF Film / New Prods

[PeterB]

HOWEVER, I have an idea for a very unique enlarging paper product. The idea is simple but nonstandard. It's a "graded" paper but uses multigrade technology to vary the toe shape from short toe to long toe, using MG filter set. I only need grade 2 warmtone. It would be super-cool to be able to get modern portraits and old timey landscapes on a single stock of paper!
Ryuji,
could you help me understand something about the usefulness of long and short toe papers. This is how I think it works (please correct me if I'm wrong)
For a given fixed film (characteristic curve), a long toe paper will compress the highlights (present say in a landscape) at the expense of a reduction in local mid tone contrast, while a short toe will not compress highlights, thus allowing you to spread out the midtones over more of the paper's tonal range (thus more pleasing for portraits).
If this is the case, then I'm curious to know
i) which papers (do you use that) have long toes
ii) which papers (do you use that) have short toes
iii) Would you use one film for both portraits and landscapes and then just make use of the adjustable paper toe to control local highlight and midtone contrasts? If so what would you use?
iv) If however you would still use different films for landscapes and portraits with this "graded" toe-adjustable paper idea of yours which films would they be?

regards
Peter

[JurgenF]

cooltone fibre based paper is an excellent idea!
as well I would buy the delta 25 film - please in 120 rollfilm-format!
compliments for your work!!

[Black Dog]

SFX 120-would be vg, though I'd really like to see something like Konica 750
Delta 3200 in sheet sizes?? sign me up NOW!!!!!!!! (maybe 200 sheets a year?)
Delta 25- sounds great and I'd probably buy 50-100 rolls a year
Cooltone in FB would be nice, although at the moment I usually use Forte. But I'd definitely be interested. Say it loud, I'n analogue and I'm proud!

[Andre Noble]

I would purchase Pan F in sheet film, 4x5, 5x7. I would also purchase a Delta 25 in sheet film, but I prefer a PanF sheet film.

This is not idle, PanF in sheet film is a fantastic idea - 2nd only to bringing back at least one Ilford B&W 220 film.

[JohnArs]

I would the Delta 400 ASA prefer in sheets then a 3200 ASA film but I'm sure would stock booth!
Thanks!

[dphill]

Simon,

I would love to use SFX in 35mm or 120.
Delta25 would be interesting alternative to PAN F+.
I would probably use two hundred feet just to make a comparison against the three hundred feet of PAN F+ I will have used by the time the Delta25 is released.
I'll buy and try any paper you have available.
I don't use sheet film at this time.

Thanks for asking for our opinions,

Dan

[joneil]

I used to shoot Delta 400 in 4x5 when it was made itn eh past, so if either Delta 400 or 3200 came out in 4x5, I would use it
joe

[r-s]

A prediction vis-a-vis Delta 25 production:

If you do indeed put this film into production -- in any format, but particularly the higher volume formats (i.e., rolls -- 35mm/120/220) -- you will experience a massive burst of initial sales -- heavy emphasis on the word "initial."

Your temptation will be to base future demand projections on the initial demand volume. If you do, you will likely fall prey to -- and create -- a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The initial burst of purchases will be going straight to the freezer, as users, having been burned repeatedly in the past by other vendors, perceive a likely one-time opportunity to stock up on an emulsion type that they have lusted after for years.

Your mission would be to assure the user-base that you really will be supporting this emulsion on an ongoing basis, so that they can buy as they go, rather than trying to fill up the freezer with a "forever load" today.

This will naturally be an uphill battle, and you'll be torn in two directions -- on the one hand, you will have the customers, incredibly gunshy, viscerally reluctant to "trust" anyone. On the other hand, you will have "corporate" telling you what a great goldmine you've got in this product, "Why, look at the demand! It's truly staggering! We've got to ramp up production!"

If they do ramp up production in the wake of an initial "mad minute" of freezer-purchase stocking up, they will be left reeling when they are stuck with a massive amount of unsold inventory, as demand slacks off, due to the customers having flattened their wallets as they filled their freezers.

If Ilford "corporate" is like most "corporate" mindsets, what will likely happen is that they will decide that they've misread the market -- or, that the market "was fickle and doesn't really know what it wants" -- and, issue an order for immediate cessation of production of the line. Once they've discontinued it, they will either have a fire sale on the remaining (possibly massive) stock, or, more likely (IMO), they will send it to salvage, to strip out the silver for use in other products to hopefully sell at NON-firesale prices.

The idea would be that a roll of "firesale"-priced Delta 25 would represent a roll of some other film -- at normal pricing -- that was lost. In which case, it would make more sense to destroy the Delta 25 stock on hand, rather than "move it" at fire-sale pricing.

This is all speculation, but I don't think it would be the first time a product experienced that sort of "demand-whiplash".

The madness that is traditional photography -- in particular, the categorical loss of virtually all ("mainstream") slow-speed/ultra-fine-grain films -- IMO makes this kind of scenario almost inevitable -- which I consider tragic, given the fact that you are actually considering producing such an emulsion.

So, my suggestion, to reiterate, would be to work extra-hard to assure the market that you really are committed not only to B&W photography, but, to LOW-speed materials, too.

If you can convince the market that you really will be there for them with this product on an ongoing basis, then they will not go on a mad buying spree the instant it hits the shelves, and they will not shoehorn as many rolls into their freezers as possible.

You'd naturally have to convince "corporate" of the wisdom of a marketing strategy aimed at reducing (initial) sales. In order to do that, you'll need to explain to them the reason for the hoarding -- and the fact that it is "hoarding", as opposed to "high demand". (Hoarding is a one-time event -- high demand is something you create, build to, and sustain. As the puppet on the kids' show says, "One of these things is not like the other.")

If you can pull off this multidimensional juggling act, I think you will have a world-beater on your hand -- and, a product that will serve as a "gateway drug" :) for your other products. People whose first exposure ("no pun etc.") to Ilford film consists of a few rolls of Delta 25 will be wowed, and then go out and buy your other products too. At first, they'll try one or two higher speed films -- then, liking what they've seen, they'll try some paper, and then chemistry too. (You are going to be selling chemicals, right?)

Well, there's my two cents, worth their weight in electrons. Hopefully some of it will make at least some sense, and, even more hopefully, it may help to see Delta 25 become and remain a viable product!

[karin bingel]

I would be very interested in Delta 400, 13X18 format.
I have enough SFX, 120 format in the freezer to cover my needs until the end of 07.
I would buy some Delta 3200, 13X18 but only random boxes due to aging problems.

[waynecrider]

In response to the above, I can't help but think that production on alot of specific film in specific formats will be done in the future on a once or twice yearly basis. This can even extend to paper and film/paper developers. This way the company gets a big sale which makes the run cost effective and users can stock up for 6 or 12 months in advance. Production cost savings usually comes in buying things in bulk. I would suspect that some things may be too cost prohibitive to produce on a weekly/monthly basis, especially items that are low volumn sellers. The only adverse situation that can happen is raw material suppliers would not be able to supply based on a once in awhile order.

I am a Delta fan, and would love anything else in the 120 format.

[Curt]

I can almost smell the Pan F in 2x3 and 5x7; pinch me I think I am dreaming; first I got a nice card and some film from Fuji and now Ilford might make something I could actually use.

Oh? It's not Pan F? Oh well that's the way it goes. It's not in 2x3, not enough call for it? And it's not going to be in 5x7? I already gave up on getting 4x10 but I am grateful for the work that seems to be going on in the ULF film that I don't use.

Don't get me wrong, everyone else does.

[Amund]

Simon has made it very clear earlier that PanF+ in sheet film will not happen....

[Curt]

Hi Amund, could you put it in larger all capitals letters so I can hear you shout your opinion louder? Did I make it amply clear chap?

[Amund]

Hi Amund, could you put it in larger all capitals letters so I can hear you shout your opinion louder? Did I make it amply clear chap?

Pick your fights somewhere else. I really don`t see the point in your aggressive tone here.

[Andrew Forrester]

Simon,

I'm pleased to see you will be doing another run of ULF film & Delta 3200 in ULF would be great, but will you be making the film only available to photgraphers in North America, as you did with your previous run?

Andrew

[Russ Young]

Simon-

Thanks for asking- and listening. The Great Yellow Father went deaf circa 1985.

I have no interest in 35mm but would dearly love to see Delta 25 available in 120, 4x5 and 5x7. The Mamiya lenses in 120 are so incredible and need a film to match. In large format, well, I'm using a tripod to begin with so what's the hurry in exposure?

Am a regular user of Ilford Ortho in 4x5 and 8x10- please be sure it continues!

toodle pip,
Russ

[David A. Goldfarb]

In large format, well, I'm using a tripod to begin with so what's the hurry in exposure?

Wind, subject motion, and reciprocity in low light are the usual answers, and some of us shoot handheld LF.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Take the bickering offline, please.

[Dave Miller]

Take the bickering offline, please.

Thank you.

[Curt]

Your welcome.