PDA

View Full Version : Homebrew XTOL?



Pages : [1] 2 3

Jerry Cunningham
06-07-2006, 08:49 AM
I am beginning to enjoy making homebrews and I like XTOL. I have searched past posts and I can't seem to find a formula. Prehaps I have missed the right thread. Does anyone have a home brew formula?
Jerry Cunningham

Jack Lusted
06-07-2006, 09:05 AM
Look at Mytol

Jack

Jordan
06-07-2006, 09:36 AM
Yes, MYTOL is what you're looking for. It's in the Recipes section of this site.

psvensson
06-07-2006, 09:39 AM
I have doubts about the keeping qualities of Mytol - the activity of ascorbic acid in water tends to die off pretty quickly without special tricks. Ryuji Suzuki's and Patrick Gainer's formulas deal with this in different ways. Inspired by Gainer, I deal with it by mixing a simple formula from dry ingredients every time I process.

750 ml water
8 ml 1% solution of phenidone in alcohol
3 g ascorbic acid
64 g sodium sulfite (2tbsp + 2tsp)
water to 1l

Delta 100 35mm: 74 F, 8 mins.

It has XTOL's qualities of fine grain and good accutance.

Tom Hoskinson
06-07-2006, 10:01 AM
One of my favorites is Pat Gainer's PC-TEA (Fine grain and High Acutance)

PC-TEA Stock Solution

Heat 100 ml triethanolamine (TEA) 140F to 200 F (Use a Pyrex container in a oven, on a hot plate or in a water bath). The TEA may darken this is ok.

With constant stirring, dissolve 0.2 g phenidone and
9 g ascorbic or erythorbic acid (AKA isoascorbic acid)

Dilute the Stock Solution 1+50 with water and develop HP5+ 8 or 9 minutes at 70 F.

Tom Hoskinson
06-07-2006, 10:18 AM
Here is a thread with Pat Gainer's formula and his comments on PC-TEA:

http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11001&highlight=Gainer

srs5694
06-07-2006, 11:16 AM
The precise formula for XTOL is a Kodak secret; however, Kodak has filed patents and issued MSDSes on XTOL, so its rough composition is known. If you're interested, you can look up US patent #5,853,964. (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5853964.html) Paul Lewis's Mytol (http://www.jackspcs.com/mytol.htm) is very close to this, except that it lacks some of the preservatives, so it probably won't last as long.

As others have noted, Ryuji Suzuki and Pat Gainer have both published mix-it-yourself phenidone/ascorbic acid ("PC") developers with reputations for good keeping qualities. Although I've never used it, Suzuki's DS-10 (http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/film-dev-recommend.html) is often compared favorably to XTOL, although I've seen comments by Suzuki himself that DS-10 is a somewhat more specialized developer; it's intended as more of a fine-grain developer rather than a general-purpose developer. I've used Gainer's PC-Glycol, (http://www.photosensitive.ca/vitC-devs.shtml) which is a much simpler formula that's probably less similar to XTOL than DS-10, but it still works quite well, in my experience. PC-TEA is another popular Gainer creation, but I've not used it. Likewise, I've not used PC-Gly-TOL, which is a variant of PC-Glycol that's designed to come closer to Mytol (and hence XTOL).

Alan Johnson
06-07-2006, 01:59 PM
I made up some PC-TEA by the more recent low temperature method decribed by Patrick Gainer,see his first post in this thread:
www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19975
I consider the low temperature method easier and less risky and after 8 months this brew is still working and appears unaffected by the water in it.
Because it contains no sulfite, some of the claims made for granularity with PC-TEA are a bit optimistic IMO.I tested it wth T-max 100 and found it gives finer grain at the 1:100 dilution,where it gives grain similar in size to D-76 1:1 but it never gets as fine as Xtol.
I actually prefer this look of small,sharp edged grain and use it in preference to Xtol.

eclarke
06-07-2006, 02:31 PM
I have been an Xtol user. I found this formula on one of Ryuki's pages, he formulated this for T-Max. I process 4x5 in a Jobo and this seems quite good and reliable. It' easy to mix..

metol 0.4g
L-ascorbic acid 1.0g
sodium sulfite 20g
sodium bicarbonate 1.0g
sodium carbonate (monohydrate) 4.0g
water to make 1 liter


EC

Gerald Koch
06-07-2006, 03:07 PM
I found this formula on one of Ryuki's pages, he formulated this for T-Max. I process 4x5 in a Jobo and this seems quite good and reliable. It' easy to mix..

metol 0.4g
L-ascorbic acid 1.0g
sodium sulfite 20g
sodium bicarbonate 1.0g
sodium carbonate (monohydrate) 4.0g
water to make 1 liter

The improved version of this formula is DS-12.

Tom Hoskinson
06-07-2006, 03:21 PM
EC, this brew looks interesting, but it doesn't look like it will have a very long shelf life.

My inclination would be to split the recipe into A and B stock solutions, using Pat Gainer's technique of mixing Metol base and Ascorbate together with Propylene Glycol as the A Solution (with a very long shelf life).

Then the B solution would only need Sodium Carbonate and Water.

The working developer would be a one-shot.

psvensson
06-07-2006, 04:41 PM
The formula cited by EC is an accutance formula, and a good one, but is not equivalent to Xtol straight or 1:1 (It might be close to Xtol 1:3 or something like that.) I've tried mixing up that formula at 10x concentration to see if it would keep. It didn't. Tom's suggestion to dissolve the developing agents in glycol would be the way to go.

PC-TEA is also a great formula, but not a solvent developer of the Xtol type. There are some who say the grain is as fine, but I'm not one of them...

Shelly Grimson
06-07-2006, 06:01 PM
Why not support Ryuji by purchasing some of his proprietory developers that are now being sold through the web. I can't recollect what company is selling them though. I saw the add within the last two weeks.

Tom Hoskinson
06-07-2006, 06:45 PM
Why not support Ryuji by purchasing some of his proprietory developers that are now being sold through the web. I can't recollect what company is selling them though. I saw the add within the last two weeks.

I hope that Ryuji has great success marketing his formulations Shelly, and I thank him for publishing the formulas.

However, the title of this thread is


Homebrew XTOL?

Jordan
06-07-2006, 07:21 PM
AFAIK the Ryuji developers that Digitaltruth is currently selling are for paper only. Ryuji's film developers are supposed to be coming later.

Mytol keeps, but not forever. I got a couple of months out of a stock solution in a half-filled brown glass bottle.

PC-TEA and PC-Glycol are good options (I use both) but are not the same as Xtol. You can make a developer that is very close to MYTOL/Xtol by taking the PC-TEA or PC-Glycol stock solutions and adding appropriate quantities of metaborate or sulfite. I worked out the amounts needed and wrote them up in an article on this site: http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=184 I call these variants "PC-TEA-TOL" and "PC-Gly-TOL". They have the same phenidone concentration and working pH as Mytol.

The advantage of using these formulas is that you can make two developers (a solvent-type Xtol-like soup or a higher-acutance Gainer-type developer) using the same stock solution. I would guess that the end results of PC-Gly-TOL or PC-TEA-TOL are very similar to psvensson's formula (they are very similar).

fhovie
06-07-2006, 09:44 PM
I just push processed some TRI-X in Mytol that was mixed in November - 2005. It was perfect. The mixture was in a purged bottle (no air.) Although I like PC-TEA, it is not Mytol. PC-TEA is a lot edgier and has much coarser grain. Mytol is has much smoother grains.



I have doubts about the keeping qualities of Mytol - the activity of ascorbic acid in water tends to die off pretty quickly without special tricks. Ryuji Suzuki's and Patrick Gainer's formulas deal with this in different ways. Inspired by Gainer, I deal with it by mixing a simple formula from dry ingredients every time I process.

750 ml water
8 ml 1% solution of phenidone in alcohol
3 g ascorbic acid
64 g sodium sulfite (2tbsp + 2tsp)
water to 1l

Delta 100 35mm: 74 F, 8 mins.

It has XTOL's qualities of fine grain and good accutance.

eclarke
06-08-2006, 11:16 AM
EC, this brew looks interesting, but it doesn't look like it will have a very long shelf life.

My inclination would be to split the recipe into A and B stock solutions, using Pat Gainer's technique of mixing Metol base and Ascorbate together with Propylene Glycol as the A Solution (with a very long shelf life).

Then the B solution would only need Sodium Carbonate and Water.

The working developer would be a one-shot.

I mix about 2 liters of the stuff and normally have it used in at least a week. It dissolve very quickly and is easy to mix. If I need a fresh batch, I have it made before my Jobo warms up. I am intereted in the DS-12 and also the Gainer method you describe, the chemicals just arrived and I will give both a go as soon as I have more sheets!..EC

Jerry Cunningham
06-08-2006, 11:19 AM
I want to thank everyone for all the great information. I can now get to work and make things happen!
Jerry Cunningham

Tom Hoskinson
06-08-2006, 11:28 AM
EC, my statement: Then the B solution would only need Sodium Carbonate and Water.

Is only true if you can tolerate some proportional image stain and emulsion tanning.

To prevent image stain from forming, you need some Sodium Sulfite in the B solution.

eclarke
06-08-2006, 01:16 PM
EC, my statement: Then the B solution would only need Sodium Carbonate and Water.

Is only true if you can tolerate some proportional image stain and emulsion tanning.

To prevent image stain from forming, you need some Sodium Sulfite in the B solution.


Thanks, Tom...EC