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David A. Goldfarb
09-03-2006, 10:17 AM
A 35mm SLR is certainly the ideal choice for live insect macros, but for static subjects MF and LF have their attractions, and we've had a few threads on those subjects.

Generally you can use the same lenses for all formats, since coverage is huge at macro distances.

I've got one 4x5" macro shot in the gallery with a photograph of the setup in the comments. I know non-subscribers can't see the full sized image, but maybe you can see the comments for the technical info--

http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7389&cat=500&ppuser=60

David H. Bebbington
09-03-2006, 10:48 AM
...
Generally you can use the same lenses for all formats, since coverage is huge at macro distances.
...
You CAN, but I would always expect a 35 mm macro lens to be optimized for 1:1 (and be quite good a reasonable way either side of this). The Tominon lenses I mentioned I believe are optimized for roughly the range 1:5 to 1.5:1 (like enlarging lenses). True LF macro lenses look like (and as far as I am aware are) microscope lenses with iris diaphragms and are the only ones I would trust for magnifications above 2:1.

Anupam Basu
09-03-2006, 10:54 AM
I will probably be giving LF macro a shot with my enlarger lenses if I can figure out what to use for a shutter. I am guessing the hat on lens approach should be feasable at effective apertures of f22-32 with moderate light and slow film.

-A

David A. Goldfarb
09-03-2006, 11:07 AM
You CAN, but I would always expect a 35 mm macro lens to be optimized for 1:1 (and be quite good a reasonable way either side of this). The Tominon lenses I mentioned I believe are optimized for roughly the range 1:5 to 1.5:1 (like enlarging lenses). True LF macro lenses look like (and as far as I am aware are) microscope lenses with iris diaphragms and are the only ones I would trust for magnifications above 2:1.

Yes, I would agree with that.

My best macro lenses for LF are a 25mm Luminar and 35mm Canon FD Macrophoto lens, both in RMS mount. Despite the fact that the Luminar is legendary, I think the Canon is a bit sharper and contrastier.

But still, the Tamron 90/2.5 Macro holds up pretty well in medium format (I have a custom FD/Bronica adapter for macro). I haven't figured out how to mount it conveniently to test it for LF.

David H. Bebbington
09-03-2006, 11:57 AM
I will probably be giving LF macro a shot with my enlarger lenses if I can figure out what to use for a shutter. I am guessing the hat on lens approach should be feasable at effective apertures of f22-32 with moderate light and slow film.
-A
The Tominon lenses I keep on mentioning ;) have a fine 40 mm thread that screws right into a #1 shutter (I have a Copal). A black object in front of the lens (don't think you'll have room for a hat!) can be used as a "shutter", the only trouble is you will probably have a distance of 100 mm or less between the lens and the subject and any object such as a piece of black card will cause a draft and make subjects like plant leaves vibrate!

David A. Goldfarb
09-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Your exposures will be quite long if you use natural light, so you can just remove and replace the darkslide. If you use flash, you will probably need multiple pops, and if you dim the ambient lights, you can just leave the shutter open while the flash recycles.

Dan Fromm
09-03-2006, 12:35 PM
You CAN, but I would always expect a 35 mm macro lens to be optimized for 1:1 (and be quite good a reasonable way either side of this). The Tominon lenses I mentioned I believe are optimized for roughly the range 1:5 to 1.5:1 (like enlarging lenses). True LF macro lenses look like (and as far as I am aware are) microscope lenses with iris diaphragms and are the only ones I would trust for magnifications above 2:1.David, I've had all of the MP-4 Tominons but the 105. Polaroid's MP-4 documentation quoted optimal ranges for them that were in fact the magnifications they could attain on an MP-4. That is, usable, not best. FWIW, as I measured the 17 is best at 20:1, the 35 at 18:1 (as high as I tried it), the 50 at 9:1 - 12:1. My tests on the 75 were abbreviated, better at 4:1 than at 2:1. All best wide open, so after verifying that I recorded nothing. Didn't try the 135 seriously, there are better lenses than it. If I had to have only one of them, it would probably be the 35.

I've also had all of the Luminars. One big surprise there, I found a reversed 25/1.9 Cine Ektar II was better at f/2.8 than all of the 25/3.5 Luminars I've tried at f/3.5 from 10:1 up. All got worse when stopped down farther.

The biggest surprise I've got so far, and I'm ashamed of myself for having taken so long to try it, is the 55/2.8 MicroNikkor AIS reversed, at f/4, and set to its mount's infinity stop. It beats a wide-open 63 Luminar, actually two of them, from 2:1 up. But the 40 Luminar is a bit better.

Second biggest surprise is that a 4"/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar facing normally is very competitive with a known good 100/6.3 Luminar in the range 1:4 to 4:1. Wide open from 1:1 up, at f/11, f/16, f/22 at 1:1 down.

Readers, as a matter of practice the Tominons are very usable lenses, not to be scorned. But there are better.

Ted Harris, please set us all straight.

Cheers,

Dan

Dan Fromm
09-03-2006, 12:41 PM
I will probably be giving LF macro a shot with my enlarger lenses if I can figure out what to use for a shutter. I am guessing the hat on lens approach should be feasable at effective apertures of f22-32 with moderate light and slow film.

-AAnupam, as David Bebbington pointed out Tominon macro lenses for the MP-4 system are threaded M40x0.75 to screw into the front of a #1 shutter. Diaphragmless MP-4 Copal #1 Press shutters pop up fairly often on eBay, are not too expensive.

www.skgrimes.com will make a female M39x1-to-male M40x0.75 adapter to order. IIRC, they're a special order but cataloged item at www.srbfilm.co.uk. There's always glue, darkroom tape, ... I suggest adapting to #1 because, well, there are all those cheap ex-MP-4 #1s.

If you can find or have a 105/5.6 Componon and a #00 Synchro Compur, the cells go straight into the shutter and the spacing is correct. I have both, have done the experiment.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

Anupam Basu
09-03-2006, 01:47 PM
I actually picked up the 75mm tominon locally for a few bucks but it's shutter is shot. But I have promised myself I won't do macro in 4x5 until I get a grip on 'normal' shooting with a view camera - it's a question of discipline:). Now let's see how long that promise holds up.

-A

Alex Paul
09-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Hi folks... Anupam just shared the name of this site and though I do shoot digital I still have and use my trusty F2. I am excited to see that film purists still exist and I for one love film which I know in the eyes of many makes me a dinosaur too :-).... Anyway great to be here and I look forward to many useful exchanges ....Alex

roteague
09-03-2006, 08:01 PM
Hi folks... Anupam just shared the name of this site and though I do shoot digital I still have and use my trusty F2. I am excited to see that film purists still exist and I for one love film which I know in the eyes of many makes me a dinosaur too :-).... Anyway great to be here and I look forward to many useful exchanges ....Alex

Don't worry about sounding like a dinosaur, there are a lot of us, who actually don't own a digital camera. Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy our community.

mark
09-03-2006, 08:11 PM
Digital cameras? Never heard of 'em. :D

naturephoto1
09-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I have a battery of macro lenses that I can use with both my Leica R series cameras and my Linhof Technikardan 45S. I have to try these with the Linhof. I have both the Leica R bellows as well as the old Spiratone bellows that allows for all the movements of a large format camera on both standards. I have a series of adapters to use these lenses and extension tubes for the both bellows for the Leicas and also adapters to use all the lenses (but the Leicas) for 4" x 5" . The adapters were made for me by SK Grimes and I have the Linhof Macro tube with the Compur 0 Shutter. I will also have to get a #1 copal shutter. Lenses that I have include: Canon 20mm and 35mm Macrophoto lenses, Leitz f2.5 25mm Photar, Schneider f4.0 M Componon, Rodenstock f4.0 1X 75mm Apo Rodagon D, Rodenstock f4.5 75mm 2X Apo Rodagon D, Leica f2.8 60mm Macro Elmarit, and the Leica f4.0 Macro Elmar Bellows lens.

Rich

Daniel_OB
11-16-2006, 03:04 PM
Roteague
"It seems like more and more, macro is now done digitally."

Could you please get time to explain where you got this from? Or I am missing something.

Thanks
www.Leica-R.com

Dan Fromm
11-16-2006, 06:27 PM
Daniel, I b'lieve that nearly all of the people who show off their macro work here shoot digital. Those of us who shoot film and don't ever digitize are underrepresented.

It also seems to be true that beginners are much more likely to start with digital than with film. Digital gear is easier to stumble across.