I've finally made my first B&W FB print from a digital negative...

I'd like some input as to what others think or suggest. I will post both images, first the fiber print, second the original digital file.

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1165/door005zo9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3755/0009doorex6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


-Martin

I've finally made my first B&W FB print from a digital negative...

I'd like some input as to what others think or suggest. I will post both images, first the fiber print, second the original digital file.

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed.

-Martin

Martin,

Tell us a little bit about your workflow.

My initial impression is that your process adjustment curve needs some work.

I was using Dan Burkholder's method.

I made a step wedge in photoshop, using a 2% increase from 0-100. After that I convert it to a negative in photoshop, then printed it on Pictorico White Film. After that I tested the print exposure times to get a maximum black...Then processed the print, and let it dry.

After I scanned the print with 48bit color (no color corrections or any other settings). Next I adjusted for black and white points on the scanned print in photoshop, and then measured the density of the steps using the "K" value in the info box. I took those "K" values and compared them to my original values of the step wedge. Then after listing them next to each other, I started to develop the correction curve. I would use the "K" value from the scanned print for the Input, and the "K" value from the step wedge for the Output value in the Correction Curve Box. I used about 10-12 points for the correction curve.

Finally, I made took the picture posted above, and applied the correction curve, made some minor adjustments to preserve details, inverted and printed the corrected negative. After I went through the same darkroom steps to develop the print as I had for making the step wedge print.

Let me know if I need to clarify anything else. I'd be happy to hear more suggestions as to what I could do to improve.

Thanks,
Martin

Here is a copy of the correction curve I used for the negative. I know it looks strange, but those are the values I got when I measured the scan.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3232/clipimage002ps0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I was using Dan Burkholder's method.

I made a step wedge in photoshop, using a 2% increase from 0-100. After that I convert it to a negative in photoshop, then printed it on Pictorico White Film. After that I tested the print exposure times to get a maximum black...Then processed the print, and let it dry.


To determine your minumum printing time use a piece of plain Pictorico white film. Then use that time to print your step tablet.


I used about 10-12 points for the correction curve.


You can and should use more data points than that in PS. 14 not including 100% and 0%. You will have more control over your curve.


Finally, I made took the picture posted above, and applied the correction curve, made some minor adjustments to preserve details, inverted and printed the corrected negative. After I went through the same darkroom steps to develop the print as I had for making the step wedge print.


Are you using black ink only or a colorized negative. You will probably have better success with a colorized neg.

One thing I do is work with several small images plus a digital step tablet printed on the same sheet of Pictorico when I'm testing a process adjustment curve.
You can see how the curve works with a number of different images with different tonal distributions. Actually one of the best images to test with is the Ole Moire image included with Dan's book.

How do you like the prints. Do the prints look grainy? That is does the white film produce smooth results. What printer are you using?

Here is a copy of the correction curve I used for the negative. I know it looks strange, but those are the values I got when I measured the scan.



Your curve looks lumpy. You do know you can use a 10x10 grid in the PS curve dialog? This makes setting data points a lot easier.

Thanks for the tip about changing the grid and enlarging it...

I did determine the maximum black as you described. Also, I cut a corner off of my negative to make sure the black of the area with no film covering it, matches that of the area with film covering it.

I'll add a few more data points to my curve, thanks for that tip. My question is, if I set my white & black points using Levels (100% & 0%), there is no need to set white & black points on Curves, right?

I'm using an Epson R800, and using all the colors to print b&W (it is not colorized in the like a pyro negative though).

The prints don't look grainy at all, and have very smooth tone transitions. The prints also looked good, when viewed on their own. Some of the highlight areas could possibly be a little better in the final print, but I'll run some more tests.

Earlier I said I was using Dan's method, I made a mistake, really I was using the method described by Brad Hinkel (LINK (http://www.digital-negatives.com/)).

Another thought I had was using the gray & black inks sold by MIS, and to see if that would improve tonality. Brad had mentioned something about this, and I'm waiting a reply.

My adjustment curve does look rather odd to me, as all the ones I've seen before seem to have very smooth transitions. But it seems if I add more points on the curve it will continue to be less smooth... Should I leave it as is, or attempt to smooth it out more through manual adjustments? Does it matter if I have a lumpy curve?

Any other suggestions?

Any other suggestions?
Yeah, I'll get back to you tomorrow sometime.

The digital neg is strictly for contact printing or can it be used for enlargement? Like make it an 8x10 neg and enlarge to a 20x24 print? Can I use this method instead of LVT negs?

The digital neg is strictly for contact printing or can it be used for enlargement? Like make it an 8x10 neg and enlarge to a 20x24 print? Can I use this method instead of LVT negs?
Contact printing only.

Some after thoughts I had when reviewing the print...

While the FB print appears lighter then the digital picture, I know this is because the Dmax of the paper is not able to reach that of the digital file. When I scanned the print no adjustments (no black point set) were made. Also, while the digital file looks far sharper (it was sharpened a bit to preserve details), the compressed version posted looks far sharper then the original file because of compression I think.

When I went back and set the black point in the scanned FB print, it looked very similar to the original file.

Does anyone else have any general helpful hints or tips so I might improve?

Has anyone tried gray scale inks such as MIS to produce digital negatives, if so, how did it work out for you?

Thanks,
Martin

Some after thoughts I had when reviewing the print...

While the FB print appears lighter then the digital picture, I know this is because the Dmax of the paper is not able to reach that of the digital file. When I scanned the print no adjustments (no black point set) were made. Also, while the digital file looks far sharper (it was sharpened a bit to preserve details), the compressed version posted looks far sharper then the original file because of compression I think.

When I went back and set the black point in the scanned FB print, it looked very similar to the original file.

Does anyone else have any general helpful hints or tips so I might improve?

Has anyone tried gray scale inks such as MIS to produce digital negatives, if so, how did it work out for you?

Thanks,
Martin

MIS gray scale inks are not a good choice for several reasons. They do not dry properly on Pictorico or other transparent materials. Grey scale inks cause distortions of the tonal scale, and don't always block UV light particularly well. Or to put it another way it is difficult to get enough ink density to make decent negatives.

I would stronly suggest that you look at several sources of information about making digital negatives.

1) Purchase Dan Burkholder's book.
http://www.danburkholder.com/

2) Purchase Mark Nelson's ebook.
http://www.precisiondigitalnegatives.com/

3) Look at Clay Harmon's Color Ratio article covering the production of inkjet negatives.
http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art056.html

4) Huntington Witherill's black & white calibration system of digital output.
http://www.huntingtonwitherill.com/

IMO, Brad Hinkel and Jim Read's digital method really don't produce great results.

Hope this helps,