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wfwhitaker
01-04-2007, 12:24 AM
The deadline for the Ilford sheet film special order is nigh and the presumed main player in all of this, JandC Photo, remains completely incommunicado. Yes, yes, I know all about their move. But I am the customer here. I am the one footing the bill and I can't get the time of day. All I would like is some reassurance that everything is on track. But everything I observe indicates otherwise.

JandC Photo announced their move to new quarters and on their website state that they plan to return for business on January 15, 2007. This is coincidentally the same day as the deadline for the Ilford sheet film offer. That leaves damn little time - as in none - for customers to resolve any issues or questions they might have about ordering. JandC Photo does not answer emails, PM's or [attempted] telephone calls. Some six weeks ago I wrote a post (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/33834-ilford-ulf-film-2.html?highlight=ilford+ulf+order) inquiring as to how I was to place an order with a company which wasn't answering emails and had disconnected their telephones. That thread has since disappeared from the Sponsors Forum and I was able only to find it by doing a search. Not really surprising then that no one, including the firms who will profit by my expediture, has bothered to answer.

And where did the thread go? Why is it not still in the Sponsors Forum? The deadline for this has not yet passed. It is still germane. Why has it been removed from public view? Sean?

To further complicate matters, there is this thread (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/34443-ulf-ilford-photo-harman-technology-ltd.html), opened by Simon Galley who states that Ilford's distributor in the U.S. will be Wynit, Inc. What makes this disturbing is the last post (as I write), from Fred Newman/The View Camera Store, himself a sponsor of APUG, in which he states that Wynit, Inc. is not aware of the Ilford sheet film offer (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/34443-ulf-ilford-photo-harman-technology-ltd-3.html).

Are you kidding me? Wynit is not aware of the film offer? If this is true, then who is handling this? Here I am, poised to spend hundreds of my hard-earned dollars to purchase film and the supposed U.S. distributor for Ilford doesn't know anything about it? And the key player in all of this isn't answering emails; isn't updating his web site; and has disconnected his telephone lines? And pertinent APUG threads are disappearing from the forum?

I can tell you right now that none of this fills me with confidence. Understand that I would be happy (and I want) to purchase film. And I'm happy to support the businesses involved. But the customer is just being left completely in the dark here with his wallet open. Could somebody please step up to the plate and give us the facts?

BarryWilkinson
01-04-2007, 03:40 AM
Wynit, Inc. is not aware of the Ilford sheet film offer (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/34443-ulf-ilford-photo-harman-technology-ltd-3.html).


I mentioned this in Galley's earlier thread before Christmas and received no response. I think the whole thing stinks.

Barry

noseoil
01-04-2007, 07:58 AM
Golly fellas, sounds like you both need to set up your own business and make the order work out on your own.

I can't and won't apologize for J&C's lack of communication, but I can say that they have a full plate and are hard-pressed with the move, inventory, ordering and bills to pay like we all have. Add to this a new building, construction costs, schedules, staffing and hopefully you can see the other side of things. If John is putting the order together, I imagine he will be back in communication, once the dust from the move settles. He has done a lot to help us all with our film needs, perhaps it is time to allow him a bit of leeway to get the business up and running again.

When I had a problem with some 8x10 sheet film (which was cut incorrectly at the factory) a few years back, he was right there and no questions were asked as it was replaced at his cost. It just seems to me that we might try to extend the same courtesy when he needs a bit of time.

I suggest you both invest in a large walk-in freezer and then stock up, once the order gets placed. In the mean time, 35mm is cheap to buy and shoot. Why not polish up those ULF skills with a 35mm camera? tim

P.S. Sorry to twist a nose or two, but life goes on.

wfwhitaker
01-04-2007, 09:40 AM
If John is putting the order together, I imagine he will be back in communication, once the dust from the move settles. He has done a lot to help us all with our film needs, perhaps it is time to allow him a bit of leeway to get the business up and running again.

No. This is business and there needs to be accountability. And besides, I have been patient until now. If I am being asked to ante up a large amount of money, I need some reassurance that the mechanism is in place to produce the goods. I sat down to the computer last night with the credit card out and was ready to place an order until I saw the post claiming that the U.S. distributor is not even aware of the sheet film offer. If true, then that is simply inexcusable.

I honestly hope I'm getting worked up over nothing. I need film. And I'm willing to pay for it. But until I have something more to go on than sheer speculation ("I imagine..."), I'm not putting one penny on the table.

BarryWilkinson
01-04-2007, 10:07 AM
Golly fellas, sounds like you both need to set up your own business and make the order work out on your own.


My remarks were mainly aimed at Ilford who are not responding to genuine concerns. Its not Ilford moving, Galley could answer these questions but obviously chooses not too. Do Ilford really want to cut ULF Film? Does not look like it to me.

As far as J&C are concerned, I have had good service from them in the past, even living here in the UK. However, in my opinion they should have someone available at the end of a telephone line answering queries, no matter how busy they may be. Its extremely bad business to be out of communications totally for around two months.

Barry

noseoil
01-04-2007, 10:09 AM
We all "vote" with our money. I can understand the sense of frustration, but there seems to be a lack of communication in several directions here. When I bought my 4x5 Shen Hao, Badger was the "only" distributor in the US. It turns out that the camera was also marketed by others here in the states. Was there an exclusive distributorship, or was it just what Badger was told by Shen Hao?

It seems possible that in the interim, Ilford has made other arrangements for distribution of their products. There may also be several distributors who deal with different segments of the US market. This seems unlikely, but markets and trends change rapidly in today's world. Sounds like wait and see is about the best we can do at this point. Best, tim

wfwhitaker
01-04-2007, 10:44 AM
My remarks were mainly aimed at Ilford who are not responding to genuine concerns.

I sent a PM to Simon last evening (EST) with a link to this thread and a request for clarification.

Rob Skeoch
01-04-2007, 11:11 AM
Since everyone is stirring up the pot, I'm an APUG sponsor.
I just order Ilford film from Wynit and they send it over. They've never asked me about special cutting in the ULF sizes but I do have some stock in HP5 in the following sizes... 4x5, 8x10, 11x14, 7x17, 8x20, 12x20. I usually have 5x7 as well but Tony Hauser bought all my stock yesterday.
In case your desperate.
-Rob

frednewman
01-04-2007, 11:27 AM
I've placed a call to our Wynit rep this morning and he still hasn't heard anything. He gave me the number for someone with Harman (Ilford) here in the States and I've left a message.

Also forwarded a link to this thread to Simon at Harmon UK so I hope we'll get an answer soon.

Fred Newman

doughowk
01-04-2007, 12:15 PM
There appears to be several sources for the Ilford special order. Hunts PhotoVideo (http://www.huntsphotoandvideo.com/) has listed on their eBay Store (http://stores.ebay.com/huntsphotoandvideo-com) the Ilford ULF film sizes available. I talked to Chris who confirmed that they are participating in the order thru Wynet.

Oren Grad
01-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Hunts PhotoVideo (http://www.huntsphotoandvideo.com/) has listed on their eBay Store (http://stores.ebay.com/huntsphotoandvideo-com) the Ilford ULF film sizes available. I talked to Chris who confirmed that they are participating in the order thru Wynet.

Thanks, Doug.

frednewman
01-04-2007, 03:39 PM
Dennis just had a very nice chat with Eric Luden with Harman (Ilford) in the US. He made it clear that Ilford will continue to support the ULF shooter and will publish details about the next special run shortly. They are still working those detail out. Tentatively there will be a month long ordering window with delivery in March. So forget the Jan 15th deadline and stay tuned for details from Simon, most likely in the next week or so.

No ULF shooter will be left behind! :)

Fred Newman

doughowk
01-04-2007, 04:00 PM
I think an important question to ask a supplier is whether you'll actually have for sale Ilford ULF film after this initial order. Being new to ULF, I have no idea how much Ilford film I'll be using over the next year. I'd be willing to pay more to a supplier who stocks their freezer with Ilford.

Oren Grad
01-04-2007, 04:19 PM
Dennis just had a very nice chat with Eric Luden with Harman (Ilford) in the US. He made it clear that Ilford will continue to support the ULF shooter and will publish details about the next special run shortly. They are still working those detail out. Tentatively there will be a month long ordering window with delivery in March. So forget the Jan 15th deadline and stay tuned for details from Simon, most likely in the next week or so.

No ULF shooter will be left behind! :)

Fred Newman


And thank you Fred, for following up.

Curt
01-04-2007, 10:25 PM
JandC probably has received thousands of emails and attempts to be reached. In response they probably have folded to the response as it would be impossible to answer so many a question. Announcements or updates would have been nice but we don't run the company. We don't run Ilford and when they want us to know something they will tell us. Aren't you grateful they offer film, paper and chemicals? Where else would you go without them, Kodak?

kjsphoto
01-05-2007, 02:50 AM
If you cant get any response from them at all try someone else. Contact Freestyle and see if they can work something out for you, I don't shoot ULF so I have no idea about the film, but they always have 8x10 and down in stock.

BarryWilkinson
01-05-2007, 04:20 AM
We don't run Ilford and when they want us to know something they will tell us. Aren't you grateful they offer film, paper and chemicals? Where else would you go without them, Kodak?

Forte, Bergger, Gemany, China...

I'm sorry but Ilford are a business, I don't need to be grateful, they are not doing it to help us out, they do it to make a profit.

Fortunately I don't need them any more, I am just very annoyed at the c**p marketing from a company here in the UK.

I have no further comment about J&C.

Barry

Terence
01-05-2007, 09:45 AM
Maybe it's just me, but when J&C said they would be incommunicado for two months, I took it to mean they'd be incommunicado for two months. See:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/33246-when-will-jandc-get-restocked.html

They were terminating their old call center service, and would be traveling a lot. New orders will be on hold until they reopen.
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/33347-were-moving-expanding.html

When the move is complete they'll be able to answer your questions.
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/30761-changes-j-c.html

Get over it, people. The world is not at your beck and call every minute of the day. Yes, businesses should try to please their customers. They can do this by keeping you informed. This was done. If you don't want to do the research, don't smear others.

I've seen similar complaints about B&H being closed on Saturdays. "I can't order my film when I want . . . wahhhhhhhhh ! I can't order my new lens when I want . . . wahhhhhhh !"

Plan accordingly, and quit your whining.

wfwhitaker
01-05-2007, 01:14 PM
The initial post of this thread expressed concern about a lot more than J&C. This is not specifically a thread about J&C and it is not - and should not be - intended to "smear" anybody. Please don't twist this thread into something it isn't.

I simply want to take advantage of an offer advertised by J&C. But there are some other circumstances which are red flags, most notably that the Ilford U.S. distributor, Wynit, Inc. claims no knowledge of the film order. We're not talking about two or three bucks here. My order will be the better part of a thousand dollars. That's a lot of money to me. While there remains a legitimate concern about the means by which the goods will be delivered I'm not about to go committing to an expediture of that size without first researching it. So I AM doing my research. I am not "whining", but asking some very legitimate questions. It would be very helpful if Ilford themselves would make a public statement.

langedp
01-05-2007, 08:56 PM
Looks like J&C has an update on their home page regarding this order...