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View Full Version : Will the loss of Forte films repackaged for Freestyle and J&C impact you?



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Jim Chinn
01-13-2007, 11:59 AM
I posted this because I wanted to get some feedback specifically from ULF shooters.

From what I understand, Forte was the manufacturer for all of J&Cs classic line of films. I know they made film for Freestyle, but I don't think Freestyle ever offered repackaged Forte (Arista line) in anything larger then 8x10. They also produced the 200 speed Bergger which has been offered By View Camera Store in ULF sizes.

That now leaves only 2 manufacturers that cut film in a variety of ULF sizes.

Efke/Adox in 25/50/100
Ilford FP4-125/HP5-400

I suppose one can add Kodak on the list but I don't know the status of any future runs of TMY to be cut for ULF sizes so for all I know we may have seen the last of ULF Kodak.

I know there is Foma, Maco Slavich and others, but (correct me if I am wrong) none of them cut film any larger then 8x10.

I am interested in responses as to how Forte closing will affect you (if any) and what do you see for the future of ULF.

jgjbowen
01-13-2007, 01:15 PM
MAS just posted on the Azo Forum that Forte is not involved with the production of Lodima, so this won't have any negative impact om me. I use Kodak films for ULF. JandC posted on their website that Kodak is interested in another ULF run of TMY.

bherg
01-13-2007, 01:16 PM
I posted this because I wanted to get some feedback specifically from ULF shooters.

From what I understand, Forte was the manufacturer for all of J&Cs classic line of films. I know they made film for Freestyle, but I don't think Freestyle ever offered repackaged Forte (Arista line) in anything larger then 8x10. They also produced the 200 speed Bergger which has been offered By View Camera Store in ULF sizes.

That now leaves only 2 manufacturers that cut film in a variety of ULF sizes.

Efke/Adox in 25/50/100
Ilford FP4-125/HP5-400

I suppose one can add Kodak on the list but I don't know the status of any future runs of TMY to be cut for ULF sizes so for all I know we may have seen the last of ULF Kodak.

I know there is Foma, Maco Slavich and others, but (correct me if I am wrong) none of them cut film any larger then 8x10.

I am interested in responses as to how Forte closing will affect you (if any) and what do you see for the future of ULF.




You can get Rollei r3 in ULF sizes. Atleast one to add to the list. But it must be though to not be able to know if there are going to be another run on film for your camera. I have long pondered the idea of a ULF camera, and i really hope they keep it coming.

With Forte closing down its production their market shares goes to the other companys that still lives.

And hopefully it will strengthen their place in this market that now is a niche market.
Atleast I could live with a price increase if the companys feel the money isnt enough for keep producing.

Maybe soon we will be forced to use glas plates again. back to the stone ages, not that i mind, but not having film would be a drag.





Cheers Johannes

David A. Goldfarb
01-13-2007, 01:42 PM
I suppose it will change my strategy. For instance, if J&C 400 is available in 11x14", I'd just buy it, but if it isn't I may make more of an effort to organize a Tri-X order or participate in one if someone else organizes an order in that size (and no, I'm not interested in TMY or HP5+).

On the other hand, for the moment, I'm getting along just fine lately with Efke 100 in 11x14", and if I need more speed, there's Acufine for the field, and I can always add another strobe pack for the studio.

Scott Peters
01-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Well, I really like EFke 100 in 7 x 17 and 8 x 10. For some reason, I really haven't had issues with needing faster film...I mean, I use a tripod, can calculate reciprocity, and hardly ever, if ever shoot moving objects...I recently shot images at 20 - 30 seconds in the field that were fine. Perhaps its because I contact print that I stop down so much that even with 400 speed film my shutter speeds are real slow too. I have used the J and C 400 and like it in high sbr ranges, but not so much in low sbr's as building density is an issue for azo or alt. processes. The kodak tmy is wonderful to work with. I really like it too. I will probably load up on the next round of kodak orders, but it is really expensive too....so, I may lean more towards the efke 100. I guess I will shoot more efke. I purchased a lot from JandC recently when they had a sale. Overall, I have mixed emotions. First, any B and W closing is bad news about the market.....however, it may actually bode well for the longevity of other players as they supplant/pick up this market lost by Forte. I guess there are rumors too of perhaps someone purchasing assets of Forte and continuing in perhaps a more market competitive fashion.

Jim Chinn
01-13-2007, 03:33 PM
I only used the J&C classic a few times, mostly when I first started shooting 11x14 and at that time it might have actually been HP5 repackaged. (about 4 years ago) I will say that the affordability was a big factor at the time. Now I shoot mostly Ilford but have been re-reading a lot of posts regarding Efke and think I am going to go back and give the 100 speed film a try again.

Maybe the Forte films were not that big of an item for ULF shooters. The more I go back and look at old posts the more I find tremendous interest/loyalty for Efke/Adox and Ilford. Plus enough interest to get Kodak to do the run of TMY cut for ULF sizes.

So as others have pointed out, perhaps thinning the herd is not such a bad thing with regards to film. We still have a more affordable alternative in Efke and Ilford seems to be committed to doing a yearly ULF film run. If Kodak stays in the game thats pretty good. Paper is another story. the loss of Forte paper as has been discussed in other threads is in many ways an irreplaceable loss.

ReallyBigCameras
01-13-2007, 04:30 PM
Jim,

For now (knock wood), I can still get my three favorite films (TMY, HP4+ and Efke PL100) in ULF sizes. Still, I hate to see the options dwindle.

Ironically, it was the Kodak and Ilford special ULF programs this time last year that finally convinced me to make the jump to ULF. With the two big guys joining Efke/Adox and Forte/J&C Classic/Bergger, the selection of ULF films was greater than any previous time in my life. The impending loss of the Forte films (and all their re-branded versions) hurts, especially for those shopping based on price, but so far there are still enough choices to keep me shooting ULF and even contemplating adding a new (to me), larger camera (14x17) to my arsenal.

Kerry

avandesande
01-13-2007, 06:30 PM
You have to wonder if Kodak had gotten out of the paper business earlier that Agfa would have survived.
Another annoyance is the Krispy Cream expansion all over the US... they put half the dunkin donuts out of business in Albuquerque, then they were overextended and closed all the shops in the Southwest. Now it's hard to get a donut.

juan
01-13-2007, 06:49 PM
It's my understanding that the popularity of South Beach, Atkins and other low-carb diets is what put all of the donut shops out of business. Very similar to the film situation.

Where I'm going to be hurt is in 2x3 - now only Efke and HP5 are available in 2x3. I'll really miss the Classic 400.
juan

Jan Pietrzak
01-13-2007, 07:13 PM
David,

Last year, we put an (11x14) Tri-X order in. A number of people did not take part. But we still did the order. I have 50/10sh boxes on ice my half of the order, (no it is not for sale) but Kodak cut and shipped more film than the order needed. SOOOOOO Freestyle has 25 or 30/10sheet boxes in stock. Call them to place an order. If you can get a 140 box order togeather than fine they will try and get it for you.

Jan Pietrzak



I suppose it will change my strategy. For instance, if J&C 400 is available in 11x14", I'd just buy it, but if it isn't I may make more of an effort to organize a Tri-X order or participate in one if someone else organizes an order in that size (and no, I'm not interested in TMY or HP5+).

On the other hand, for the moment, I'm getting along just fine lately with Efke 100 in 11x14", and if I need more speed, there's Acufine for the field, and I can always add another strobe pack for the studio.

Robert Hall
01-13-2007, 11:26 PM
I haven't been hit by the film issues. I am still shooting quite a stock of FP-4 in 8x10 and 12x20. What really hurts is the loss of the paper. I count on that like Michael and Paula like their AZO.

jd callow
01-14-2007, 12:05 AM
What little b/w I shoot is kodak.

david b
01-14-2007, 12:36 AM
I give 99% of my money to Ilford.

c6h6o3
01-14-2007, 06:35 PM
No. I use only Kodak film.

Alex Hawley
01-14-2007, 07:11 PM
My answer is a strong YES.

J&C film had been the only film I have used in 8x10 up until this last Fall. Then I started using Efke 100 for normal and low contrast subjects, J&C 400 for higher contrast stuff. I have gotten by with only J&C 400 and I think it is quite versatile. The sole reason for not using Ilford or Kodak is the high cost of their 8x10 and larger sheets.

I can live with a 100 ASA film but would sure like to have a 400 ASA too. If it gets to where only Ilford and Kodak are available, I guess I will have to bite the silver bullet. But, the very high cost of Ilford/Kodak in ULF will probably keep me at 8x10 and smaller formats. That 7x17 or 8x20 rig is getting to be more of a fantasy as each day goes by.

User Removed
01-16-2007, 07:54 AM
I've been shooting the JandC Pro 100 for a few years now and just finally getting it under control with Pyrocat-HD developed in tubes on a rotor base.

With the film no longer available, I gave some HP5 a try with Pyrocat-HD in the tubes. Each negative got TERRIBLE streaking, so I stopped using the tubes and developed the rest in trays.

I found that HP5 does not expand as quickly or as much as I would like in Pyrocat-HD when developed in trays. I cannot build up the highlight density as much as I could with JandC.

The next film I'm going to try will be Tri-X, I presume. However, with the recent large layoff at Kodak, who knows how much longer the film will be made for...

sanking
01-16-2007, 10:12 AM
Jim,

For now (knock wood), I can still get my three favorite films (TMY, HP4+ and Efke PL100) in ULF sizes. Still, I hate to see the options dwindle.

Ironically, it was the Kodak and Ilford special ULF programs this time last year that finally convinced me to make the jump to ULF. With the two big guys joining Efke/Adox and Forte/J&C Classic/Bergger, the selection of ULF films was greater than any previous time in my life. The impending loss of the Forte films (and all their re-branded versions) hurts, especially for those shopping based on price, but so far there are still enough choices to keep me shooting ULF and even contemplating adding a new (to me), larger camera (14x17) to my arsenal.

Kerry

Kerry,

Why donīt you check with the fellow who makes the Chamonix cameras to see if you canīt get some Chinese film cut to ULF size. I mention this because my colleague Sam Wang visited him last year and found out that he is a pretty good ULF photographer, and when asked about supply of film, he said no problem in China.


Sandy

jgjbowen
01-16-2007, 01:47 PM
Ryan,

Check out the Azo forum for some lengthy discussions on TMax-400 and Pyrocat. That is what got me started with this combination.

Good luck with your quest,

User Removed
01-16-2007, 07:04 PM
Ryan,

Check out the Azo forum for some lengthy discussions on TMax-400 and Pyrocat. That is what got me started with this combination.

Good luck with your quest,

So it must be good if you and others are using it, correct?

I will go ahead and give it a try since my normal film is now gone.

Thanks much,

Ryan McIntosh

PHOTOTONE
01-17-2007, 09:51 AM
So it must be good if you and others are using it, correct?

I will go ahead and give it a try since my normal film is now gone.

Thanks much,

Ryan McIntosh

Hey, they don't even stop production for another 9 days, or so, and who knows how much film stock is already made, and how much is still in the pipeline. Just because J&C is unavailable right now, doesn't mean that Forte made film stocks are completely gone. There is still (in small format) Agfa film stock to purchase. (as another example).