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Dave Wooten
02-18-2007, 09:37 AM
Clay I Can't think of any right off the top of my grey old head....lots of amidol users but no Azo? IMNSHO Azo is not the vital incredient.

David A. Goldfarb
02-18-2007, 09:53 AM
Hurrell used Azo.

Otherwise the greats used DuPont Velour Black.

jgjbowen
02-18-2007, 02:02 PM
How many of us could name the papers that ANY of the greats used? I'm sure that like all of us, they used many different papers over the years because just like now, manufacturers were either discontinuing or improving their papers. The greats just didn't have the internet to share it with the world.

Curt
02-18-2007, 03:58 PM
The Oriental paper ad says print like Ansel Adams but after examining his portfolios I didn't see Oriental anywhere. I did see Agfa and a host of Kodak papers. I just reread his Biography, and the Day Books of Edward Weston and a few other books and I don't recall seeing Azo in any of these books. I am not saying that they didn't use Azo but I don't recall them saying it was the best or only way to go. Is Azo mentioned in the AA series?

Azo on eBay allows me to discuss Azo paper, the demand, the substitute, any alternatives, the cost of the paper before, during and after its production, anyone using it and anyone collecting it and anyone wanting to use it. If my opinions offend you then go to ignore or put your head in the sand because using the words troll or blog is so grade school.

User Removed
02-18-2007, 04:04 PM
Ansel Adams once mentioned that the finest print he had ever made was on AZO. Besides for that, I don't believe he really used much of it at all.

jgjbowen
02-18-2007, 04:15 PM
I recall seeing either photos or a video of Ansel's darkroom and it was filled with the Blue boxes of Oriental and boxes of Ilford Gallerie.

The fact that Azo was manufactured for 100 years says somebody must have been using it.

We'll have to wait and see if anyone is willing to pay nearly $300 for a 100 sheet box of Forte.

Jon Shiu
02-18-2007, 04:25 PM
I think E. Weston mentioned in Daybooks that he used Azo for proofing his platinum prints?

Jon

Alex Hawley
02-18-2007, 05:08 PM
Ansel Adams once mentioned that the finest print he had ever made was on AZO. Besides for that, I don't believe he really used much of it at all.

Believe he also said that the entire showing he did of 8x10 Azo prints bored him to death, hence he went for what he said was the more "dramatic" 16x20 enlargement. Whutever.

Curt
02-19-2007, 03:45 PM
I just finished reading the Daybooks, page by page, very intently and I didn't see Azo mentioned anywhere in it. That's not to say he didn't of course. I read AA's autobiography and didn't see Azo. I have gone through the making of 40 photographs by AA and saw plenty of references to Oriental Seagull. Although the Portfolios of AA didn't have any reference to Azo or Oriental Seagull. Adams did say that Edward Weston used Pt. and contacted on two other papers but did not mention Azo. Maybe the contemporary photographers are giving it the push and without the contact papers of the past it is or was the only one left to use.

If someone had the facilities to run an Azo type contact paper they could really clean up. For those who have some left, do you feel as reluctant to use it as I do? I have considered cutting it down, but to what size? An 8x10, two 5x7s would be nice, or four 4x5s. Edward weston made some really small prints. I have the In Focus book from the Getty and the print sizes are incredibly small. In the Daybooks, when he gave his 8x10 to one of the Sons, he went to small portraits and said the customer would have to accept them or else too bad. I like 5x7s and would be willing to double my paper count if new paper doesn't come along. I got 1500 additional sheets of 3 x 4 3/4 inch No. 2 paper some time back. It's small but it will be fun to see if I can make use of it. Some personal project perhaps?

User Removed
02-19-2007, 04:16 PM
According to Kim Weston, Edward weston printed on Haloid paper during the last part of his life. He also used Convira, Velox and AZO.

Brett Weston, although printing on alot of Oriental, also made some prints on AZO for awhile.

Michael Kadillak
02-19-2007, 05:53 PM
If someone had the facilities to run an Azo type contact paper they could really clean up. For those who have some left, do you feel as reluctant to use it as I do? I have considered cutting it down, but to what size? An 8x10, two 5x7s would be nice, or four 4x5s.

I continue to use my Azo inventory regularly because I did not purchase it as an investment but to make prints with it. The fact that it lasts a very long time sealed the deal for me and now I am damn glad that I did. Many were feeling quite comfortable that there would be several years worth of inventory that they could continue to purchase in small increments after the announcement was made until someone came in and bought the whole enchilada. I learned a long time ago that there is no better substitute for worrying about materials than stocking up with what you feel allows you to make expressive photographs. Call it a natural hedge in an uncertain world.

To see a 250 sheet box of 11x14 go at auction for that much money is a real head scratcher. If this person really has this kind of financial resources then why the hell did he not stock up when the going was good? I hope that somehow someway a new silver chloride paper comes into the market.

Platinum anyone?

Cheers!

jgjbowen
02-19-2007, 06:08 PM
Can someone name the great photographers of the last century who printed on Azo? Not trolling, just curious. I know that E. Weston used Haloid and some other now-defunct brands primarily. Any 'greats' who used this stuff?

What if we rephrased the question to "Can someone name the great photographers of the last century who printed on Silver Chloride emulsions?"

I think we zealots are hooked on the silver chloride and since Azo was the only remaining silver chloride paper we had no choice....just as we will be hooked on Lodima, simply because Lodima will be the only silver chloride paper available. I'm sure some folks will say they preferred Azo to Lodima and others will prefer Lodima to Azo.....different is never the same, but it will be as close as we can come, short of coating our own...

jgjbowen
02-19-2007, 06:20 PM
To see a 250 sheet box of 11x14 go at auction for that much money is a real head scratcher. If this person really has this kind of financial resources then why the hell did he not stock up when the going was good? I hope that somehow someway a new silver chloride paper comes into the market.

Platinum anyone?

Cheers!

Michael, the person that purchased the 11x14 shoots 11x14. I don't know when 11x14 was discontinued, but I'm sure a box of Old grade 2 Azo was worth $3/sheet to him. I haven't seen any 20x24 Azo for sale on the 'Bay and he may need more contrast than the Canadian grade 2 could deliver. Any Grade 3 in 20x24 is likely in Michael Smith's possession and he isn't going to sell his.

Best,

John

jnanian
02-20-2007, 07:39 AM
Ansel Adams once mentioned that the finest print he had ever made was on AZO. Besides for that, I don't believe he really used much of it at all.

i was under the impression through the writings on michael smith's website
that ansel adams wasn't sure if it was azo or not and that it was an educated
guess that it was actually azo. from what i remember reading
( this was a few years ago, since i wasn't able to find the quote again ) was that he made
a "magnificent" print, and he wasn't sure what paper it was on ....
i wish i could find the quote again, cause i am probably remembering it a
little wrong.

i have a bunch of azo ( 4x5 + 8x10), and i use it often enough, habs
contact prints, photograms and the occasional color slide to b/w paper
internegative. seeing how much a box goes for on EBoo these days, i guess
if/when the habs program goes digital i can always sell the boxes that i have
to pay for my kids college educations :)

k_jupiter
02-22-2007, 01:48 AM
How sad.

That money could have been put forth to Michael and Paula to contribute to the Lodima fund. They are still in need of money for the paper and that would have been several boxes of 11x14 the person could have preordered.

Sorry Ryan,

I prepaid for a couple of boxes of the new paper, the check was never cashed. P&M obviously don't need the money that bad, and the check is not any good anymore. I don't expect to see any paper at the pre-release price.

It's all pretty discouraging.


tim in san jose

jgjbowen
02-22-2007, 05:46 AM
Tim,

If you check M&P's site, you'll see that they never intended to cash any checks until the paper was ready to be shipped. They needed the pre-orders to determine the demand for sizes and to pay for the paper once it was produced.

Keep the faith, we'll see paper someday....

User Removed
02-22-2007, 09:40 AM
Sorry Ryan,

I prepaid for a couple of boxes of the new paper, the check was never cashed. P&M obviously don't need the money that bad, and the check is not any good anymore. I don't expect to see any paper at the pre-release price.

It's all pretty discouraging.


tim in san jose


Michael and Paula were not going to cash ANY checks until they knew 100% the paper could be produced. I believe they needed the preorders as a way to show the manufacture there is an interest in the paper.

If you just go to a company and ask them to make a product, they probably would not do it. If you go with hundreds of thousands of dollars as a guarentee to them, they are more likely to think about it.

herb
02-22-2007, 12:29 PM
Adding to this, I have a check in M&P's hands for quite a while, but I seem to remember a "chloro Bromide silver gelatin" paper being advertised. Was that Forte? If not, anybody know who it is/was?

David A. Goldfarb
02-22-2007, 12:38 PM
Adding to this, I have a check in M&P's hands for quite a while, but I seem to remember a "chloro Bromide silver gelatin" paper being advertised. Was that Forte? If not, anybody know who it is/was?

Are you thinking of Bergger Art Contact, which if I'm not mistaken is a chloro-iodide or chloro-bromo-iodide paper?

TheFlyingCamera
02-22-2007, 12:57 PM
There's always Kentmere Kentona, or Kentmere Bromide.