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Scott Peters
02-22-2007, 04:24 PM
There's always Kentmere Kentona, or Kentmere Bromide.

Yes, I found the bromide close...the Kentmere is decidely a warmer tone paper, creamier whites and again a warmer tone. On some images it was a nice touch.

I did manage to get some Bromide 'close' to the AZO in Amidol formula and found the whites and the tones to be closer to AZO, but the blacks were different...

I have some nuance to test which I understand is supposed to be close too. But again, I htink that is a Forte paper and no longer available.

bobherbst
02-22-2007, 11:46 PM
Nobody should be surprised by prices for AZO on ebay. It's no longer available and is one of the best contact printing silver gelatin papers ever made. It has a 100 year history. Do a search on ebay using the keyword 'AZO' and you'll understand. I personally have numerous family postcards from the early 1900's printed on AZO DW card stock. Like Michael K., I am printing out my stash of AZO in 20x24 and 8x10. I have a couple thousand sheets combined in those formats. When it is gone, it is gone. I'll move on to what's available. I'll coat my own if I have to like my platinum/palladium work. If you don't have any AZO in the freezer, you'll be more willing to pay a premium for a paper available now at a higher price. Stashes will dry up. We are living in a major transition period in terms of materials in the history of photography.

Bob Herbst



I continue to use my Azo inventory regularly because I did not purchase it as an investment but to make prints with it. The fact that it lasts a very long time sealed the deal for me and now I am damn glad that I did. Many were feeling quite comfortable that there would be several years worth of inventory that they could continue to purchase in small increments after the announcement was made until someone came in and bought the whole enchilada. I learned a long time ago that there is no better substitute for worrying about materials than stocking up with what you feel allows you to make expressive photographs. Call it a natural hedge in an uncertain world.

To see a 250 sheet box of 11x14 go at auction for that much money is a real head scratcher. If this person really has this kind of financial resources then why the hell did he not stock up when the going was good? I hope that somehow someway a new silver chloride paper comes into the market.

Platinum anyone?

Cheers!

PHOTOTONE
02-23-2007, 01:45 AM
I have some nuance to test which I understand is supposed to be close too. But again, I htink that is a Forte paper and no longer available.

It is not a FORTE paper, rather J&C Nuance is Efke Emaks, available from Freestyle. The closing of Forte should have nothing to do with this papers availability.

Scott Peters
02-23-2007, 11:34 AM
It is not a FORTE paper, rather J&C Nuance is Efke Emaks, available from Freestyle. The closing of Forte should have nothing to do with this papers availability.

Yes, you are correct! Thank you. I have heard good things about emak as well. Scott

User Removed
02-25-2007, 06:22 PM
One of the boxes of G4 AZO sold on Ebay for around $1,700.00 dollars.

Alex Hawley
02-25-2007, 06:54 PM
One of the boxes of G4 AZO sold on Ebay for around $1,700.00 dollars.

I hope someone is very happy besides Dagor77. He has to be laughing all the way to the bank. I have a few sheets of Grade 3 left, maybe 30 sheets total. Someone want to make me an offer?

User Removed
02-25-2007, 07:08 PM
I hope someone is very happy besides Dagor77. He has to be laughing all the way to the bank. I have a few sheets of Grade 3 left, maybe 30 sheets total. Someone want to make me an offer?

Trying to plan your early retirement early with your 30 sheets of AZO, Alex?

Alex Hawley
02-25-2007, 07:22 PM
Trying to plan your early retirement early with your 30 sheets of AZO, Alex?

Every bit helps. :D I'm very happy that folks who have a bunch to sell are doing well with it. I think we all knew this day would come. Whoever bought that master roll from Kodak had a good plan.

User Removed
02-25-2007, 07:45 PM
The thing is, once Lodima is available...the most of AZO will level out back to normal I believe.

jgjbowen
02-25-2007, 07:52 PM
The thing is, once Lodima is available...the most of AZO will level out back to normal I believe.

And what if we are still waiting for Lodima 5 years from now?

mark
02-26-2007, 09:38 AM
I knew whoever bought that master role made a hack of a business decision.

Anyone want to start a pool on how long it will take Lodima o hit the streets?

Harrigan
02-26-2007, 11:30 AM
Whoever bought the master roll is probably not selling it.

Lodima is probably proving harder to make than anticipated. It doesn't surprise me and matching azo has got to be difficult. I look for lodima to end up being its own paper and hope to see it and use it one day.

Michael A. Smith
02-28-2007, 02:16 AM
It is not that it was Azo that is important. It is that Azo is a silver chloride paper. When Adams made contact prints in the 1930s and 1940s he always used silver chloride paper. And those contact prints are exquisite! And Edward Weston always used silver chloride paper. So did Brett when he nade contact prints. Silver chloride paper simply has a longer, smoother tonal scale than enlarging papers.

If one cares only about the subject then it does not matter what paper a photograph is printed on. If one cares about the photograph as object, then the "presence" of that object is important. And, to my eyes, mind, and heart, the photographs printed on silver chloride paper have a more powerful presence then photographs printed on other papers. That is not to say that photographs printed on other papers cannot be good. Of course they can. And there are thousands of photographs that prove that. But the "presence" of photographs on silver chloride paper is just something very special, which is why Paula and I, and obviously others (to judge by the insane prices Azo sells for on Ebay), value it.

And it is why we are going to have a new paper made--and not just for ourselves. Even if we were rich enough to buy the whole run ourselves we would still make the paper available to others. It is not the paper that makes any photograph an excellent one, but the photographer's vision. But still, given the vision, a well-printed contact print on silver chloride paper will always (well, almost always--I can think of a few exceptions) have more presence than a paper printed on a chloro-bromide or a bromide paper. And that's what it is all about from my perspective: beautiful objects--ones that have an emotional power.

Lodima paper will be a silver chloride paper.

Unfortunately for me and Paula we do not have a lifetime supply of Azo. So we, too, need the new paper--and the sooner the better. We are working on it. Maybe someday I will write about the whole saga.

Someone said it right about our getting advance orders: it was to judge the interest and to have the money to pay for the paper when it was ready. We had hoped we would have had paper before now, but we do not. We are aware that many checks are no longer good. When the time comes when we need to actually pay for a real product we will ask for replacements.

Anymore, I rarely have a chance to get to the Forums here. If anyone has questions, best to email me directly. I try to be prompt with answers if at all possible.

Michael A. Smith

John Z.
02-28-2007, 03:59 PM
Well said Michael. Thanks for your efforts, and we look forward to the new Lodima paper.

RoBBo
03-01-2007, 01:29 AM
Curiousity. Is there any issue with using a Silver Chloride paper for enlargements?

Michael A. Smith
03-01-2007, 01:45 AM
One can use a silver chloride paper to make enlargements, but the paper is very slow and the exposures would be extremely long--up to a half hour. But a light head was invented on which to enlarge onto silver chloride paper and the inventor, against our wishes, annointed me and Paula the distributors of this light head. It fits on 4x6 Beseler and Omega enlargers. It is not available right now because we do not want to sell any until we know there is paper on which to use it. When we do, there will be an announcement about the light head on our web site.

For more information about this and other things related to Azo paper see the Azo Forum at www.michaelandpaula.com

Michael A. Smith