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ReallyBigCameras
05-11-2007, 12:06 AM
I considered 7x17 but half of an 11x14 would be 5 1/2 x 14 and that would satisfy my need for pano.

Aw, come on Curt. Why not just go all out for a 14x17 and 7x17? In for a penny, in for a pound (or 20). My first ULF was my 7x17 Franken-ARCA and I'm already dreaming of a 14x17 version. In fact, I've obtained a number of 14x17 Fidelity x-ray holders at reasonable prices (including two more on the way from Jim Galli) and have a couple boxes of 14x17 FP4+ in the freezer (next to the 7x17 FP4+ and TMAX 400).

Kerry

P.S. Me: "Hello my name is Kerry and I'm a ULFaholic."
All: "Hello Kerry."

ReallyBigCameras
05-11-2007, 12:23 AM
Opps, I just checked my 14x17 holders and they don't specifically say "x-ray" anywhere on them, just "14x17 Film Cassette" and "Fidelity Mfg. Co. Burbank, California". Although I have seen them for sale new on medical supply company web sites in the past.

They are very nicely made, but don't have a raised ridge like other holders, and with the metal dark slides, they are VERY heavy - about 6 lbs. 7 oz. on average. But hey, they were cheap (as far as ULF holders go).

Kerry

Curt
05-11-2007, 12:35 AM
I have two 11x14 older than the hills, BC, film (that's a laugh) holders. They were the made for glass ones. Will they work? I don't know yet, probably not worth the effort. Soooo I will have to make at least 6 film holders to have anything worth while. I will see what happens.

I am waiting to see the camera that Jim is working on for the time being and restoring two Seneca cameras, an 8x10 and its smaller 5x7. I would rather build one from scratch than restore one that previous owners have made their modifications on. If I made a ULF ULF it would be a 16x20 and not a 14x17 but then I am not in that mood these days. A light weight 11x14 is in my sights though.

My dream camera is a Canham 5x7. I bought a new Canham 5x7 bellows and have all of the materials to make a Canham like camera. I have two well seasoned planks of Honduras Mahogany and the rack and pinion ready for me to go to work. I just need my energy to return, in the mean time it's the restoration process.

Curt

ReallyBigCameras
05-11-2007, 12:47 AM
Curt,

I've been drawn to the 14x17 format for a while, but the clincher was the availability of affordable 14x17 Fidelity holders. I have neither the skill, the inclination, nor the time to attempt making my own holders. Based on past experience, in non-standard formats (4x10, 6x8, 7x17 and now 14x17), I've learned to ALWAYS get some viable holders FIRST and then start worrying about trivial things like a camera. I got burned once in the past by purchasing the camera first (a 4x10 Wisner) and then being unable to locate usable holders that fit it. For about the cost of 1.5 cutom made 14x17 wooden holders, I now have 7 of the 14x17 Fidelity holders. The only real complaint I have (or will have when lugging them around in the field) is the weight. I think wooden holders would weigh about half as much (but cost 4 - 5x as much).

16x20 would be great, but I think I'll stop at 14x17 (of course, a year ago I "stopped" at 7x17).

Kerry

Jim Fitzgerald
05-11-2007, 01:29 AM
That's right guys I stopped at 8x10! Now I'm going to stop at 8x20! Yeh, right! I've been making some very nice 11x14 enlargements so why not build a 11x14 and do contact prints! Hell, why not skip the 11x14 and do the 14x17? I have lenses that may cover. The holders are the problem. But if Kerry was able to score some relatively inexpensively!!!???? But then again I just made my first 16x20 enlargements!!!! 16x20........ oh someone please make me stop!! I guess we should all just have a group build of 20x24's and be done with this!!! If we all do it do you think we could get a deal on T-Max 400 in 20x24??? How am I going to develop negs in my apartment? I guess I'll have to black out the whole place!!! Enjoy whatever size turns you on. ULF is great!!!!

Jim

Curt
05-11-2007, 01:47 AM
Jim, how are you making 16x20's in a one bedroom apartment? Do you have an 8x10 enlarger in a closet? :p

These film holders need some rethinking, maybe a one film holder of another design. Build the holders and they will come...

Curt

Zebra
05-11-2007, 09:39 AM
That's right guys I stopped at 8x10! Now I'm going to stop at 8x20! Yeh, right! I've been making some very nice 11x14 enlargements so why not build a 11x14 and do contact prints! Hell, why not skip the 11x14 and do the 14x17? I have lenses that may cover. The holders are the problem. But if Kerry was able to score some relatively inexpensively!!!???? But then again I just made my first 16x20 enlargements!!!! 16x20........ oh someone please make me stop!! I guess we should all just have a group build of 20x24's and be done with this!!! If we all do it do you think we could get a deal on T-Max 400 in 20x24??? How am I going to develop negs in my apartment? I guess I'll have to black out the whole place!!! Enjoy whatever size turns you on. ULF is great!!!!

Jim


FILM? We don't need no stinking film!!!

Film is merely a suggestion to the rational ULF man/woman. 20 x 24 Wet Plate Collodion--Tintypes and Ambrotypes is the way to go. Mix 'er up and pour 'er on. If you are ever in Asheville, North Carolina drop a line and come on over and take a dip in the silver Nitrate Pool we keep out back. Instant tan when it touches the skin to boot.

To answer your question about TMAX 400 in 20 x 24 yes they will take your order/money for it--getting Kodak to deliver it is another issue all together! Although those in the know say its soon to come to pass. I remain hopeful. Until then the FP4 in the freezer is SSSUUUUUUWWWEEEETTTT.

This was posted generously by Kerik when I was having trouble posting a while back but since this thread is all about temptation I'll throw one of my better efforts with the 20 x 24 out there to muddy the waters a bit more. Gum Over Pt/Pd Van Dyke Brown/Burnt Siena. My son Satchel Cochise--the Medicine Man. Sorry 20 x 24 Ambrotypes don't scan very well so I don't have any didgitized to share.

Enjoy your trip down the rabbit hole!

Monty

David A. Goldfarb
05-11-2007, 09:50 AM
Me: "Hello my name is Kerry and I'm a ULFaholic."
All: "Hello Kerry."

Geeze, Kerry. What ever happened to "Thalmann, Zen master of the ultralight backpacking kit"?

Jim Fitzgerald
05-11-2007, 10:06 AM
Monty and everyone! I told you it is an obssesion! Then there is alternative processes! I love this! To bad I have to have a day job to help pay for all of this. Can't wait till I get my last two son's out of college. I got my oldest out of Stanford ($$$) but I still have USC and U. C. Santa Cruz to go! I told my boys that all I want for payback is a REAL darkroom! Well maybe a.......! Maybe then I can get serious about this.

Curt, the bedroom is the darkroom. Enlarger is in there and I develop and print in the tub/bathroom. I'm getting very good at space management. It comes from the degree I'm working on in Moving Science Technology. ( Moving three from dorm to dorm makes one very good with space limitations!)

Jim

sanking
05-11-2007, 10:08 AM
BTW, if the issue preventing you form fully exploring the ULF option is concern from the partner, spouse or signifiant other about expense I have a wondeful remedy. Just take up sailing. You will spend so much money that it won't be long before someone gives you a brand new 7X17 or 12X20 Canham to lure you back into photography and keep you in the darkroom and off the water.

Sandy King

Jim Fitzgerald
05-11-2007, 10:16 AM
Sandy, that is a great idea! Only one problem. I live by the beach in Ventura which is a good thing but I get seasick! So I decided I will get a Porsche Twin Turbo instead!! At least I can get to my favorite sunrise/sunset locations quickly!!! Who needs to go off road with these beasts anyway!

Jim

Ole
05-11-2007, 10:34 AM
The sailing is a good idea, but I'm afraid it doesn't work.

I have a sailboat already...

ReallyBigCameras
05-11-2007, 02:08 PM
Geeze, Kerry. What ever happened to "Thalmann, Zen master of the ultralight backpacking kit"?

He's still in there somewhere screaming to get out. The nice thing about my dalliance into the world of ULF is that now ANY 4x5 seems like an ultralight (how's that for the rationalization of an addict?).

Kerry

argus
05-11-2007, 07:25 PM
I do it only because I'm lazy.

People who shoot 4x5 or smaller (can you imagine THAT!) have to focus 2 times: first at exposure and secondly at enlarging.
We only have to do it once :)

G

SAShruby
05-11-2007, 07:48 PM
Obsesion is good, deep pockets are neccessary...with every dimension you're doubling the price...;) Trust me I know it I have 8x20 too. LOL

Curt
05-11-2007, 10:18 PM
Jim, I did the bed/bath room darkroom back in my college days; when we got a house a couple of decades ago I started to eye the bathroom up as a darkroom and my wife stepped in and said, "how about the garage", end of story. I built an addition over the newly removeled garage and put the darkroom up there. My son is off to dorm life this comming fall. I feel the pressure of the void of what college money he will need already. We saved, a little, but it is never enough. I need to take my gear, get a hackeysackoline vehicle and go back to nature for the next year.

After my tour, isn't that a joke...tour, in Vietnam I was going to really see America when I got back, never did, married and off to college then work and well... life. When does life really start?

The only way around deep pockets is to get rid of the pants.

Jim Fitzgerald
05-12-2007, 01:59 AM
Curt, well how shall I say this?? I think the wife will get the house and probably everything else I have when the time comes. I may have to donate/sell my equipment to my friends so I have no assets left if you know what I mean. Some how I keep it all together. My most valued acomplishment will be being able to say I helped put my three son's through college. My photography is just a bonus!! It keeps me sane. Or is it insane! Either one works. So the bathroom will have to do for now. Oh, I can't do 20x24, the trays won't fit in the tub!! All the best.

Jim

Curt
05-12-2007, 03:00 AM
When I see the darkroom that Edward Weston had I sometimes think I could do with a lot less. Over controlling everything becomes an obsession greater than going Ultra Large Format. When the enlarging equipment with the timers, lenses, film holders and special light sources, easels and extras are taken out of the process it becomes clear that there is a direct approach to photography. In the beginning I was held back for a couple of years until I figured out that my enlarging lens was cheap. What a waste of time. If I had started with contact printing it would have been so much easier and more enjoyable. Enlarging is definitely the hard road, and now that I have gone down that road I think it is time to take another direction for a while.
Thinking out loud,
Curt

Mike A
05-12-2007, 08:20 AM
I agree with argus here, I use ULF for the simplicity and quality I can obtain from contact printing.


I do it only because I'm lazy.

People who shoot 4x5 or smaller (can you imagine THAT!) have to focus 2 times: first at exposure and secondly at enlarging.
We only have to do it once :)

G

Richard T Ritter
05-13-2007, 08:28 AM
The best way to go is have a 20 x 24 camera with a 12 x 20 back and an 8 x 20 back. Im currently building a 20 x 24 as a custom job with a 12 x 20 back with 48 inches of bellows. It was such a good idea I started a 14 x 17 with a 7 x 17 back for myself.

It makes a lot of cents to take one camera with second back out into the field. The second back and holders take up far less space. This at times could be the difference between taking the camera or leaving it behind when going out into the field with other photographers.

Richard
www.lg4mat.net