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spiralcity
10-04-2007, 06:18 AM
i didn't mention 'art', maybe you should reread, i suggested that you try this work yourself and not be lead by some overrated sleaze bag

do you find it difficult to express yourself in a meaningful way?

you started this thread, i'm just seeking your opinion

I guess what you do isnt ART? Your probably right. Anyone who needs a discussion explained to them because they cant find value in what is precieved as art by many, has already missed the boat.

No one leads me Mr. Heath. Perhaps you could open your eyes a bit wider.

When speaking of Ying and Yang, how is it possible for the beauty of art to exist in one while not the other? Or are you just affraid of your darkside and havent come to terms with it? Or you just cant admit it and prefer to hide in a shell.

Enlighten me Mr. Heath. You seem to be an expert.

Do you even know what the New York underground scene was? Do you have any other artistic value than photography? I find it hard to believe you can pick up a camera with out burning your hands. I find most of your statements a spit in the face to art. I stold that last line. Guess who? I bet you cant.

Ray Heath
10-04-2007, 08:03 AM
hey spiral
why have you gone on the attack?

why so personal?

can't you expressive yourself calmly?

art, i don't consider this work to be art, but regardless of that, it is bad photography, poorly done with little regard for technique

why is poor work constantly excused because it is labelled art? why can't good art also be good, strong imaging? why is a good idea badly done considered more arty than a good idea well done? what is wrong with making use of photography's inherent strenghts?

i am a photographer and an artist, i don't profess to be an expert, i have shown my work, whether it appeals to anyone else is not my concern, where is your work? do you have the strength of character to post for all to see?

your right, i don't know from where you 'stold' that line, i don't even know the word 'stold'

jovo
10-04-2007, 08:48 AM
I'm not sure if it's good that Ray and Spiral are half a world away so they never come to blows, or if would be better that they were in the same town where they could meet for a beer and discuss Richard Kern happily, but attacking each other personally here isn't necessary or welcome. Okay, guys?

jeroldharter
10-04-2007, 08:57 AM
I have never heard of him before this. I looked at the photos and regardless of the quality of the scans they are lame. I really don't understand the appeal. I tried to log onot his website from work but "access is not allowed" which tells me something also.

Michel Hardy-Vallée
10-04-2007, 10:52 AM
I dont see the conflict. Perhaps your reading a bit to deep into a simple post.

My point is simply this: where is the "edgy" and "punk" in MTV, even the early one?

TheFlyingCamera
10-04-2007, 12:40 PM
The closest early MTV got to edgy and punk was the Clash video for "Rock The Casbah". Lots of quasi soft-porn in the form of videos for hair metal bands. For suburban/small-town parents raised in the 50s, that WAS edgy, but nothing at all like what was happening at CBGB, Studio 54 or the St Marks' Baths on a saturday night in 1983.

Michel Hardy-Vallée
10-04-2007, 04:22 PM
The closest early MTV got to edgy and punk was the Clash video for "Rock The Casbah". Lots of quasi soft-porn in the form of videos for hair metal bands. For suburban/small-town parents raised in the 50s, that WAS edgy, but nothing at all like what was happening at CBGB, Studio 54 or the St Marks' Baths on a saturday night in 1983.

Agreed, I'm ranting against Kern mainly because his bio and approach is all about wanting credit for having lived "roughly," which I find annoying, especially given his minuscule talent. About his filmmaking, he says:

"The characters in my films shot up drugs, pierced or cut themselves, beat each other up, sucked each other off, killed their parents, raped youngsters, etc. over harsh soundtracks produced by my friend Jim Thirlwell. The most popular of these films, FINGERED, was also the most controversial. At screening after screening, both in the States and abroad, I was routinely booed off the stage, attacked or shut down. Yet, the first time Lydia (the star and instigator of this movie) and I sat down to watch the finished product, she looked at me and said "This isn't hard enough". To me, making these films was like taking a big, fat, smelly dump then standing back and watching people marvel over it."

Well, so what? The French in the early 19th century were already gung-ho about épater le bourgeois, scaring off the middle-class out of their comfort, but what else?

Even if Nan Goldin irritates me at times, she's also a gifted artist and has made some poignant work that engages with the rough lives of people she was documenting. She's still making people uncomfortable now, as evidenced by the Elton John kerfuffle. I don't think that adds a lot to her value anyway, but if art is a pissing contest like Mr Kern purports, then she's pissing further away without the advantage of a penile tube!

Ray Heath
10-06-2007, 07:07 PM
what happened to mr spiral?

smieglitz
10-06-2007, 08:15 PM
...I find most of your statements a spit in the face to art. I stold that last line. Guess who? I bet you cant.

Rosanna Arquette in Martin Scorsese's After Hours quoting Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer

:p

alex645
05-14-2011, 07:09 PM
the images links must be expired/wrong, I can only see alphanumeric strings that look like censored swe@¶#ngs. Post again please, I kind of like Kern and the NO wave NY, even if I can say they never made anything pleasant (music, video, photo). The late Kern I saw (the one recycled as a softporn photographer) is quite rubbish tho. But few videos (like the ones with Lydia Lunch) were interesting, even if forever stuck in the old èpater la bourgeoisie thing.

bwrules
05-16-2011, 12:29 PM
Try flickr.