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Ian Grant
10-12-2007, 01:03 AM
If they are not available I would be interested in 9x12cm plates.
I don't have a camera that shoots this size but I am looking for one.

Goldie, 9x12 Avus type cameras seem to be extremely common in Europe (plenty on ebay) and they were sold under a variety of names Zeiss, Rodenstock, Voightlander, Ermann, Goerz, Ensign, Glunz, Orionwerk, Suter, Nelson, Welta, Watson etc and even a French un-named model. Essentially all these cameras are very similar, built from common parts and the major significant difference is the quality of the shutter and lens. There was not one standard fitting for the 9x12 plate holders, so its a case of finding the right plate holders to fit the camera.

Typically good working Avus type 9x12's sell for around 15-30 ($30-$60 US)

A particularly nice variation aZeiss Tropica (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum127/43192-zeiss-tropica.html) was the subject of a thread recently.

Good luck finding a camera :)

Ian

Roger Hicks
10-12-2007, 06:08 AM
Thank you Roger. Is there an issue with Slavich QC?
Dear Tim,

The small amount of Slavich stuff I've seen has been variable, but that was some years ago. They may well be better now. I'd only make a modest investment at first, but at the right price, yes, I might buy a dozen 13x18cm plates. It they were good, yes, I'd probably buy more.

Cheers,

Roger

Anton Lukoszevieze
10-12-2007, 07:30 AM
Great idea Tim,
I would love to use some 1/4 plates (3.25x4.25) on my Graflex Series B. Count me in for a few dozen. I so wish that glass plates would make a comeback..........
A

PHOTOTONE
10-12-2007, 10:06 AM
I asked the "why" of using plates, because I do have plate holders for some cameras and wondered the supposed "advantages". If there are compelling advantages, then I might consider being a part of this order.

PHOTOTONE
10-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Just an observation....If Slavich makes plates for Holography, wouldn't they have to have good quality control?

fschifano
10-12-2007, 10:41 AM
According to Kodak, glass plates coated with TMX emulsion are available. Anyone really serious about using glass plates and concerned about quality control should consider these. This taken from the Kodak Web site here: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f32/f32f.jhtml.

"KODAK T-MAX 100 PROFESSIONAL PLATE

The KODAK T-MAX 100 Professional Plate is a continuous-tone panchromatic plate that has the same sensitometric characteristics as KODAK T-MAX 100 Professional Film / TMX. It is especially useful for photomicrography, electron micrography, and laser recording, as well as solar and astronomical photography. It provides maximum image quality for detailed subjects. You can process this plate in KODAK T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher, KODAK XTOL Developer, KODAK HC-110 Developer (Dilution B), or KODAK Developer D-76. For ordering information, see a dealer who sells KODAK PROFESSIONAL Products."

Ian Grant
10-12-2007, 11:07 AM
Glass plates are I think still coated with Ilford emulsion (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006214150271441.pdf), by hand but not by Ilford.

A few years ago I was talking to an Ilford research chemist and one of their sales team over lunch, we were talking about people hand coating emulsions, I mentioned that a company called Barfen were selling a B&W emulsion in the UK to amateur photographers, they'd never heard of it. (I never tried it).

I got a call a few days later and was told the Barfen emulsion was actually an Ilford Nuclear emulsion, they hadn't known about it as the nuclear emulsions were a separate division.

Ron (PE) has posted a link on APUG showing one of his friends demonstrating the technique for hand-coating a plate.

Ian

Ken Nadvornick
10-12-2007, 02:30 PM
Here's a possibly silly question, except that I don't know the answer...

I know solutions exist for those wishing to load and expose film in older plate holders and cameras. Inserts, sheaths, etc. But is there such a thing as a modern holder, in standardized dimensions for use in modern film-based large format cameras, that is designed to natively hold glass plates? In other words, the opposite of the direction most people seek to go.

If I knew I could use my existing 4x5 Wista and/or my existing 8x10 Calumet C-1 with a holder designed to natively hold a glass plate, I would indeed be interested in trying them out. And maybe even try coating my own. But I don't want to have to acquire antique plate holders and a matching camera to do so. (My other half would... well, you know the rest.)

Ken

Vaughn
10-12-2007, 02:42 PM
I have some "modern" plate holders in both 5x7 and 8x10. Glass plates are still used in applications that require perfect flatness and good dimenisional stability (astrophotography, etc). So you can come across them -- I bought mine on ebay.

More people are coating their own plates these days, so modern plate holders seem to be going for a higher price.

Vaughn

Ole
10-12-2007, 03:22 PM
... But is there such a thing as a modern holder, in standardized dimensions for use in modern film-based large format cameras, that is designed to natively hold glass plates? In other words, the opposite of the direction most people seek to go...

Yes, there are.

There are the Linhof Universal Film & Plate holders ("mit Auswerfer") in 9x12cm, 4x5" and 13x18cm, which fit 4x5" or 5x7" cameras. Unfortunately the Slavich plates are a little bit too thick to use in these, at least in 9x12/4x5".

There are also Linhof adapters for using single plate holders in modern cameras; I have a 9x12cm (4x5") and a 10x15cm (to 5x7") version of these with appropriate plate holders. These plate holders will take the Slavich plates.

A third version is original wooden book-style plate holders for modern backs; I have three of these for 18x24cm plates. They fit perfectly in any modern 8x10" camera.

Anton Lukoszevieze
10-14-2007, 03:42 AM
On a slightly different note, wouldn't it be wonderful if Ilford began making plates again....?

DBP
10-16-2007, 07:53 PM
Hmmm, just discovered that my two newly acquired holders for my Avus are 3.25" by 4", not 9x12 cm as I thought. So I'll happily take either size.

k_jupiter
10-16-2007, 08:02 PM
Hmmm, just discovered that my two newly acquired holders for my Avus are 3.25" by 4", not 9x12 cm as I thought. So I'll happily take either size.

For clarification.. That would be 1/4 plate sized 3.25 x 4.25?


tim , observing for a bit, in san jose

DBP
10-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Apparently not, actually. The size really is 3.25 by 4. See these for an example http://cgi.ebay.com/2-BOXES-OF-ILFORD-PHOTOMECHANICAL-N-60-PLATE-FILM_W0QQitemZ190162344481QQihZ009QQcategoryZ4702Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.

k_jupiter
10-16-2007, 08:21 PM
Hmmm.... Need to see what my 3x4 plate holders really are. What they really are is stuffed with film sheaths.


tim in san jose

Removed Account
10-22-2007, 01:42 AM
On a slightly different note, wouldn't it be wonderful if Ilford began making plates again....?

I emailed their product request division a few weeks ago, and without giving specific numbers they said the cost for coating FP4+ or Delta 100 on glass plates would be prohibitive, even for a fair sized group.

- Justin

Martin Reed
11-25-2007, 01:27 PM
......without giving specific numbers they said the cost for coating FP4+ or Delta 100 on glass plates would be prohibitive, even for a fair sized group. - Justin

I expect the problem is that the old plate coating lines, which coated 24/7 with shifts are long in the past, and any manufacturer who can still offer plates now is producing them more or less as one-offs. The only answer, if enough people were interested, might be to pool resources and try to recreate a plate coater on a small scale, buying in a ready-made panchromatic emulsion.

There would be a lot of technical problems to overcome, eg washing overspill from the back, and how to involve an anti-halation layer. I expect Photo Engineer could put us right on most of them.

k_jupiter
11-25-2007, 01:39 PM
I expect the problem is that the old plate coating lines, which coated 24/7 with shifts are long in the past, and any manufacturer who can still offer plates now is producing them more or less as one-offs. The only answer, if enough people were interested, might be to pool resources and try to recreate a plate coater on a small scale, buying in a ready-made panchromatic emulsion.

There would be a lot of technical problems to overcome, eg washing overspill from the back, and how to involve an anti-halation layer. I expect Photo Engineer could put us right on most of them.

This is just an objective observation, not a criticism...

Judging from the interest response I received, there is not enough interest to have someone else coat these plates in Russia, then ship them piggybacked on a hologram plate order to Ohio or even dropped shipped to California. Hence, finding enough interest to actually set up a small scale coating facility among amateurs is a whole different slippery slope.

I will offer contact information of a very nice entrepreneur in Ohio if someone else wants a go at it. It just seems the level of interest doesn't justify their level of commitment required and I certainly don't blame anyone for this.

What does amaze me is how much interest there can be in Holographic plates.

tim in san jose

Martin Reed
01-11-2008, 05:57 AM
Last breath of life for an old thread, I just tried getting a positive out of some of the 10 x 8" home-made plates we didn't use when we were doing the 'Silver Gelatin' book 13 years ago. I was surprised they scrubbed up so well. It's written up as a news page on the Silverprint site;

http://www.silverprint.co.uk/News05_3.htm

It made me realise that if all the manufacturers ceased tomorrow, we could have a nice little Victorian-technology plate factory up & running quite quickly!