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Soeren
11-30-2007, 08:11 AM
You can make your own G-claron or Symmar casket set from modern or fairly modern lens cells. The real problem is that nobody makes long focal length cells that fit into the same shutter as the shorter lengths. Most of the cheaply available plasmat series jump into a Copal 3 shutter at 240 (plasmats) or 360 (dialytes) so it is hard to assemble a set with a decent range of focal lengths.

But, with a Copal 1 and the cells from a 150 and a 210 Symmar you can get a lot done. 150 and 240/270 mm G-claron cells give you a bit more range (but with larger gaps).

This sounds interesting. I have a 150mm APO symmar so if getting a 210 what can I do with those?

Ole I don't mind lenses being old. on the contrary :)
Kind regards

Bill Mitchell
11-30-2007, 10:48 AM
There's the Staeble Polyplast, where the rear cell is fixed and the front cell is changed through a bayonet mount - is that the one? I have a partial one of those too...

I use a Staeble Polyplast set, purchased from Dagor77 a few years ago. It has 105mm, 135mm, 165mm, and 195mm front elements, and 220mm by using the rear element alone. It is set in a tiny little Compound shutter, and the front components bayonet in, each with its own aperture scale on the lens.
It is a wonderful, sharp lens with beautiful bokeh. There is a +1/8" focus shift on stopping down (except the 220mm element is -1/8").
It came in a tiny little box for holding the three unused elements and three screw-in filters. (I don't know where I'm supposed to put the 4th element when using the rear element alone).

colrehogan
11-30-2007, 01:22 PM
Diane, would that be something similar to this?

http://www.bruraholo.no/Cameras/Winter/Winter_5.jpg

Ole,
It is pretty similar to that, but there is no maker's name on it.

Struan Gray
11-30-2007, 02:28 PM
This sounds interesting. I have a 150mm APO symmar so if getting a 210 what can I do with those?

I don't know how well the single cells of the more modern Symmars perform (-S, Apo, Apo-L). Supposedly the older plain Symmars, which are often labelled "Convertible" have single cells that are better corrected for coma.

A 150 and a 210 Symmar will give you a roughly 180 mm lens if you use one element from each lens. The cells are not fully symmetric (despite the name) so there are in theory four possible combinations which will all have slightly different focal lengths and aberrations. However, because the No. 1 shutter has different front and back threads there are only two combinations which are practical, so there's not so much to test.

The rear cells of the 150 and 210 used alone then give you 265 and 370 mm. The imaging is acceptable, especially if you are using LF for creamy tones rather than edge-to-edge biting sharpness.

Not a bad spread, but there's no way of bodging the equivalent of the older sets' 750 mm cell.

Ole
11-30-2007, 03:26 PM
Ole,
It is pretty similar to that, but there is no maker's name on it.

That's pretty definite then - I've got another one "pretty similar to that, but there's no maker's name on it". As far as I've been able to determine, Chr. Fr. Winter & Sohn were instrument makers and Fine Cabinet Makers, and didn't make lenses at all. But they made some very beautiful cameras, like the one I bought to get this casket set. I sold it shortly after, since I already had several better ones. :)

highpeak
11-30-2007, 03:31 PM
Diane, would that be something similar to this?



So, it was you who outbid me on this one:)

Let see how big a hole can this thread make in my wallet.:D

Keep them coming.

Alex W.

ongarine
12-06-2007, 11:32 AM
I have a very heavy brass addiction.(see Scrigno n.1)
It started many years ago with the curiosity to see how the oldies lenses for LF I saw around me could perform.
This the first part of the addiction (home collection) and the last part (office) will be, if someone is still interesting (too much is too much) next week. I tested most of the lenses I have in a undity way, for some I recorded the datas for others impressions, results sleep in some shelves.
I have a soft spot for casket sets (see Scrigno n.2) and some I collect are really bizzare like a Meyer for stereo camera or a Schulze und Billerbeck Euryplan.
Some are very similar and belong to Vademecum family, others are not so usual.
In the next days I will send photos and comments on them.

Ole
12-06-2007, 12:01 PM
Wonderful, ongarine!

There are indeed many in the Vademecum family, I've got two more in the last week. One of them came with a B&L Unicum shutter, which I'll send off to Carol at Flutots for a checkup (along with a couple of other shutters and a bagful of spare parts donor shutters). I got that one cheap, since it was listed as an "old pneumatic shutter". :)

Brian Bullen
12-06-2007, 03:45 PM
Ongarine, impressive collection! Will you adopt me?:)

jimgalli
12-06-2007, 04:30 PM
What a lovely collection Ongarine.

Here are pics of my one casket set that is incomplete. I hope someone will have the complete set and be able to tell me about it. It is a bayonet style and someone has fashioned the copper barrel so it can be used with no aperture. Present are #1, #3, #4BIS? #5, & #7. #2 and #6 obviously with the original barrel and aperture where ever it has gone. Does anyone know what this is?

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Casket_1.jpg

ongarine
12-06-2007, 04:45 PM
Jim,
I saw a very similar casket set: it was a Darlot and it belong to a friend of mine.
It had the same casket with red spacers and elements (cells and numbers on them) are the same of yours and I took with it some color pictures in 8x10 some years ago.
It had a very interesting set of cells, some are only for the back and they are divide to be use as wide angle (grand angulaire) the other as normal or semi-tele. The coverage is not so huge and back cells used single are really soft focus. The apertures are waterhouse stop.
I will ask to my friend to send me a photo to confirm my memory

jimgalli
12-06-2007, 04:49 PM
Jim,
I saw a very similar casket set: it was a Darlot and it belong to a friend of mine.
It had the same casket with red spacers and elements (cells and numbers on them) are the same of yours and I took with it some color pictures in 8x10 some years ago.
It had a very interesting set of cells, some are only for the back and they are divide to be use as wide angle (grand angulaire) the other as normal or semi-tele. The coverage is not so huge and back cells used single are really soft focus. The apertures are waterhouse stop.
I will ask to my friend to send me a photo to confirm my memory

Thanks! Very helpful and interesting. Yes, the knurling and construction looks like something from Darlot. Do you know what 'Bis' was short for on the #4? Best, Jim

Ole
12-06-2007, 04:51 PM
I think I have some orphaned Darlot cells somewhere! If I remember correctly, two of them are marked "pays" and one "bis". will look for them tomorrow.

ongarine
12-07-2007, 03:29 AM
Jim,
bis means repetition. Here in Italy in a concert when you want more music you ask for a "bis"
So, outside music, it is a lens of the same focal lenght you find in double copies in a casket set.
Speaking of double here there is the Meyer Stereo casket set.
Manufacturer is Hugo Meyer & Co - Gorlitz n.831
It is composed of: two same barrells with the number aperture sistem, very common in the casket sets of beginning of last Century.
The cells are four for every barrell:
1=43 cm.
2=35 cm.
3=22 cm.
4=15 cm.
It is an Aplanat or rectilinear and there is no instructions in it.
Someone had inscribed roughly on one barrell R, on the other L, this is a clear statement it was used, probably in England, on a stereo camera.
Never used with film only see its performances on the ground glass. It is in the wave of the Meyer Universal casket sets.
Meyer casket set story will continue.......

Ole
12-07-2007, 03:55 AM
"R" and "L" could equally well be German - for "Recht" and "Links"! :)

ongarine
12-07-2007, 05:11 AM
You are right Ole since my knowledge of German language is very close to zero and your consideration makes more sense then mine since I bought this one in Germany......;)
I will try to do my best for the next Meyer
HUGO MEYER Satz Rapid Group Aristoskop
Manufacturer is Hugo Meyer & Co - Gorlitz no number, neither incription on the barrell.
I determinated the origin by measuring the aperture wide open and it is f 5,5 and the design of the lenses, symmetrical aplanatic construction, is the same of Aristsoskop. For this purpose I have consulted an old Meyer catalogue.
It is composed of barrell with one washer stop, I had have made the others to test the casket set.
The cells are six, two for every focal length:
1=50 cm.
2=40 cm.
3=30 cm.
Combined cells with coverage in centimeters
50 ¦ 50 ¦ | 26 ¦ 13x18
50 ¦ 40 ¦ | 23 ¦ 13x18
40 ¦ 40 ¦ | 21 ¦ 13x18
40 ¦ 30 ¦ | 18 ¦ 10x12
30 ¦ 30 ¦ | 16 ¦ 10x12


Coverage single cell
50 ¦ 30x40 ¦
40 ¦ 24x30 ¦
30 ¦ 20x25

It is an Aplanat or rectilinear with a medium/small coverage around 60 degrees and it was used mainly for portraits and groups as catalogue said.
Images on the ground glass wide open are very portraitist-style, plastic and soft in the same time, close down it became more sharp.
Photo will arrive very soon

ongarine
12-07-2007, 09:56 AM
Here there is the photo of the Aristoskop Rapid Group Satz, it was a long battle, but somenthing was wrong with the computer, maybe the name of the casket:)
Brian the adoption is open, get a ticket to Verona-Italia and you will have the opportunity to test every "brass addiction" you want.....naturally with moderation not to induce dependence

Brian Bullen
12-07-2007, 11:05 PM
Ongarine, thank you very much! If I ever have the pleasure to visit your part of the world I would love to pay a visit. I think the old brass used in these lenses must contain some sort of addictive property and once touched the need for more never ends. :)

ongarine
12-11-2007, 03:57 PM
That's right Brian here I'm and to improve the dependence I introduce you the most simple casket set I saw and used.
No name or indications, it seems a French manufacturer but it is only an assumption.
It is composed of the following sigle lenses: 60, 48, 40, 30, 25, 20 centimeters.
The focal length is roughly script on the edge of the lens.
They get in position on the barrell with two very large washer stops.
The combinations are these:
60 ¦ 48 ¦ | 26.5 ¦
60 ¦ 40 ¦ | 24 ¦
48 ¦ 40 ¦ | 22 ¦
48 ¦ 30 ¦ | 18.5 ¦
40 ¦ 30 ¦ | 17 ¦
40 ¦ 25 ¦ | 15 ¦
30 ¦ 25 ¦ | 13.5¦
30 ¦ 20 ¦ | 12 ¦
25 ¦ 20 ¦ | 11 ¦
There are waterhouse stops as follows: f25 f20 f15 f10 f5 f2 and the place for the waterhouse is very near to the front lens.
Results wide open, with a combination, are very similar to an Holga lens, very small focus in the centre of the image and a complete out of focus for the rest 35% focus and a big amount of blur. This for 4x5 format and medium combinations of lenses.
With small apertures the focus increase until 55-60% and with long combinations it cover barely.
Single lenses are usable but with more or less the same results of the combinations.
I put it in front of a Copal 3 with adapter ring in a 8x10 camera and it is weird!
I will post some 4x5 photos as soon as I print them, for 8x10 you have to wait until Christmas.

Ole
12-11-2007, 06:10 PM
There's nothing more "basic" than that, that's for sure!

Are the individual lenses meniscii, or biconvex? It's a bit hard to tell from the picture...

If they are meniscii, the usable angle of view with two lenses should be around 40 degrees at f:32, according to my own Voigtländer W.Z. But then again that one was made as a soft-focus enlarger lens; I have no experience with using meniscii (or Periskops) for photography.