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filmfabrik
01-31-2008, 01:38 PM
Hi PE!

I am also very interested in your DVD and book - no, I'm not only interested in it, I absolutely need it ;-)
As i am currently studying dental medicine in Germany, it's not very likely to have the chance to come to NYC and take part in one of your workshops...

Best regards,

Peter

Rombo
01-31-2008, 02:15 PM
I would love to have Photo Engineer's book and DVD in my personal colection.
Best wishes PE!

projectbluebird
01-31-2008, 02:22 PM
Coating 35mm film especially with perfs, is a very very difficult job. You would have to buy wider film, coat it and then slit it and perf it.

PE
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)

Photo Engineer
01-31-2008, 02:49 PM
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)

Sorry, I built no automatic coating machine. That was someone else who deserves the credit. My work has been all done with hand coatings.

PE

projectbluebird
01-31-2008, 03:04 PM
my mistake, apologies to everyone.

chrisf
01-31-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm interested.

Photo Engineer
01-31-2008, 08:54 PM
Well, we thought it would take 3 days. Here we are in day 4 editing and going to day 5!

This is a real job.

We will have about 60 - 90 minutes running time on the DVD if things go the way they are now. It will involve 4 parts, Setup and practice, Making an Azo type emulsion, Making an ISO 40 Ortho emulsion, Testing and Photo Engineering. With compression this should just fit on a DVD in HDTV format. We quit abruptly when the editor crashed for the 2nd time taking all new work with it. Since we have backups, the loss was about 10 minutes of action, but still a pain.

We hope to burn the final DVD tomorrow. We will finish the last few scenes, and then do the menu.

PE

JBrunner
01-31-2008, 09:04 PM
Well, we thought it would take 3 days. Here we are in day 4 editing and going to day 5!

This is a real job.

We will have about 60 - 90 minutes running time on the DVD if things go the way they are now. It will involve 4 parts, Setup and practice, Making an Azo type emulsion, Making an ISO 40 Ortho emulsion, Testing and Photo Engineering. With compression this should just fit on a DVD in HDTV format. We quit abruptly when the editor crashed for the 2nd time taking all new work with it. Since we have backups, the loss was about 10 minutes of action, but still a pain.

We hope to burn the final DVD tomorrow. We will finish the last few scenes, and then do the menu.

PE

Hi Ron,
I know what your going through.

We have a saying... "TV production is like sausage... you're just better off not knowing how it's made."

Emulsion
02-01-2008, 02:45 AM
This is what I am planning to do. I am also planning on starting the way they did way back in the day. Glass table, sheet of film, cut into strips after coating. That automatic coating machine you built is amazing PE, but I'm starting with baby steps first. (I was thinking a strip cut from graphic arts film, ~6x24". That should be long enough for ~14-16 exposures, enough for testing anyway)

Projectbluebird
An APUGer has coated his own 16mm movie film using already perforated film, see this post:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/36979-16mm-handmade-emulsion.html
OR
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/44196-16mm-home-brew.html

I guess that emulsion could be coated onto the "picture" area of already perforated 35mm film only....leaving the area around the sprocket holes uncoated. Alternatively the emulsion mess could be removed from around the sprockets after coating. Both methods have problems.

Regarding perforators:

The following company sells film perforators:
http://buko-gmbh.de/
Click on the film perforating tools page to see some interesting tools.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Emulsion,

projectbluebird
02-03-2008, 04:59 AM
Those are some very impressive tools, but far beyond my means. My perfing machine will be much less elegant, but easier to make, considering that my resources at the moment run to a stack of books on machining from the 20's-40's. Incidentally, I seem to have arrived independently at the Bell & Howell perf shape, the Kodak Standard being more difficult to manage.

Some (rough) specs for my machine:
hand-powered film feed (think: crank, punch, repeat.)
pneumatic punch ~8-12 perf pairs per go. testing will be needed.

I've got some basic designs for components, priced the pneumatic bits, and am (slowly) accumulating funds. First up, a hobby lathe, followed by a small compressor.

As of now, funding is the biggest stalling point, I'll post results once I start construction. I figure I'll start testing with plain graphic arts film, and then cut down a few rolls of 120. Then I'll be able to tackle making my own emulsions.

Photo Engineer
02-03-2008, 09:12 AM
You have to remember that 35mm film was not possible until emulsions were fast enough with fine enough grain for projection printing. Most everything you can do will probably only be suitable for MF or LF use. A big problem will be dust and dirt during making and coating.

In any event, home made 35mm and smaller coatings will probably be somewhat unsatisfactory for a while until better making equipment is available and better formulas are devised.

PE

PeterB
02-04-2008, 08:59 PM
I doubt the 35mm or color crowd have any interest in this.
What if I copied/enlarged my 35mm neg to another neg any size up to 8x10 and then contact printed that onto the AZO ? Would it stand a chance of looking at least as good as a print made from the 35mm neg directly to non-AZO 8x10 ?

Peter

richard ide
02-04-2008, 10:34 PM
Peter

I just made a post in the Contact Forum next door which answers your questions. If you compare the 2 prints made on the same paper; That will give you a better comparison than 2 different papers.

filmfabrik
02-15-2008, 10:16 AM
Hello PhotoEngineer,

are there some good news concerning your DVD/book project?
I am already looking forward to buy it when it's ready :D

Best regards,

Peter

Photo Engineer
02-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Hello PhotoEngineer,

are there some good news concerning your DVD/book project?
I am already looking forward to buy it when it's ready :D

Best regards,

Peter

The DVD is done and burned to disk. It has been tested on several computers and players with good results.

The book is at 120 pages and is being re-written in version 3 with keys to the DVD and extra photos for clarity. It is also being reorganized.

PE

Photo Engineer
03-19-2008, 09:12 PM
Well, here is an update on the DVD and the book.

I am working on a UF/RO washing and concentration unit and also on a pumped delivery system. I have talked to the videographer, and he is willing, so there will be a delay for a DVD part 2 with these two items, and the book will be revised to include the new emulsion formulas.

I also have a formula for a faster (ISO 100) ortho emulsion that I am just about to get into.

So, with all of this, I wanted to let you all know.

I have some photos that I may get around to posting.

PE

Kirk Keyes
03-20-2008, 12:02 AM
Great News. Keep the updates coming!

Emulsion
03-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Thanks PE, great news. Keep up the excellent work.

Emulsion.

photo8x10
04-02-2008, 04:24 PM
I've just seen this thread, I'm interesting on it. I'm not an emulsion maker, but I love to understand how it make! I'm curious....I'm an Azoide.

Best

Stefano

jgjbowen
07-30-2008, 08:02 PM
Any further update on this project?