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Robert Brummitt
12-20-2007, 12:57 PM
Don't get me started on Mr. Wisner. He doesn't have customer services and I would never forward his cameras to anyone.
:mad::mad:

Mahler_one
12-20-2007, 01:40 PM
I too was thinking of purchasing a Wisner camera, but necessarily on the "used - but excellent, and like new". market After some inquiries, I noted a repititious response: Wisner cameras were, for a while, well made and reliable. However, after a time the quality control became very poor, and new cameras with assorted defects arrived at vendors and end users. Repairs became difficult to obtain, and the promises noted previously were never kept. Not knowing whether or not the factory had a "bad day" when a given camera was built, I decided not to take a chance on a used Wisner camera-despite the wonderful reputation of Mr. Ritter. There are other cameras on the market, made of both wood and hybrid materials. Thus, there appeared to be no need to "take a chance" on a camera that might have been, originally, "a lemon". One wonders if the "new Wisner factory" is making cameras any better. If Ron Wisner is serious about getting back into business it is possible that he might have to sell some cameras "on approval" before he will be trusted again. Just my two cents.

Edwin

Emile de Leon
12-20-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm really sorry to hear there is so much dissapointment in Wisners service years after he has for all practicality...dissapeared. This is why it is so good to have guys like Richard Ritter available and willing to fix the problems that Ron will not address. Ron is responsible for most if not all his service problems as head of the company and can either take resposibility for this or not. I myself at times have been frustrated w/Ron but he always came thru in the end for me without fail. He would straighten out any and all of the issues I had, no matter how small but... I live near the factory and can just drive over for a fix if necessary. If I lived further away the situation might have been different. Basically as I read it Ron loves cameras and loves making them. Eventually his business got too big to manage effectively and he overloaded on it and made the decision to downsize extensively to the point of invisibility for everyones sake. There are those out there who love his product and those who are less than enchanted. At this point in time for those who are interested let me know what you want and I might be able to get it for you but there are no guarantees. He has essentially dissapeared but will make orders now and then for those interested. He is more than capable of making an entire camera himself and is also lucky to have Marie there to help as well with the bellows/lacquering/etc. Money I would think is not the motivating factor here so those who order will have to wait and if the camera does not arrive on time will receive a refund.
One more thing...please get your ULF filmholders from one of the major companies extant. This should be obvious to anyone in the ULF field. As far as the 20x24 camera specs...Ron does not want to make these anymore because of Polaroid's bankruptcy issues and general instability.
There are many companies out there now, here and abroad that will be happy to make a ULF camera for you. Probably faster than Wisner. For those that need a Wisner or rear gearing etc. He might make one for you. For those that can't wait...you know where to go...
Happy Holidays.

sanking
12-21-2007, 12:14 AM
Gary,

I would have sent that order to Quality Camera (S&S) or Fred Newman (AWB) so fast and never looked back. A year is waaaaaay toooooo loooong to wait for a couple film holders.

Just my 2 cents,


Not sure what your time line is but we (S&S) just made a batch of 30+ holders in 12X20 size and could deliver to your door in 2-3 weeks. You can order directly from S&S (me) , or through QCC in Atlanta, or through Richard Ritter for his cameras or modifications.


Sandy King

Robert Brummitt
12-21-2007, 01:05 AM
"For those that need a Wisner or rear gearing etc. He might make one for you. For those that can't wait...you know where to go...
Happy Holidays.[/QUOTE]

No where? :confused:

Daniel Grenier
12-21-2007, 05:23 AM
...At this point in time for those who are interested let me know what you want and I might be able to get it for you but there are no guarantees.....

A kind offer, Emile, but I simply can't see why anybody would go to Wisner for anything anymore. I mean, one "might" be able to get something? No guarantees? Huge delays? If my Wisner camera ever needs repairs, I'll send it to Richard. If I need a new camera, I'll go to Richard or one of the many other serious and dedicated makers who can and will provide excellent service. Wisner has little - if any - credibility in the LF and ULF camera market anymore.

Richard T Ritter
12-21-2007, 07:30 AM
Just a note on S & S holders or other makers in Wisner cameras. It would be a very good idea to have the back checked out to make sure it is calibrated correctly and the holders fit.

michael9793
12-21-2007, 12:14 PM
From what was posted on Tuan's site, Jack Deardorff has sadly passed away.

That is a great lose. well it would be nice if someone in the family would carry on. looks like Wisner is slowly retiring and who knows how long for ebony to do the same.

TheFlyingCamera
12-21-2007, 01:08 PM
Mr Ebony (I don't remember his real name) is, after all, Japanese. He'll probably die in his workshop at the age of 95. It is my understanding though that he does have staff to do the day-to-day machining and assembly, so even if he does die, the company will carry on.

rknewcomb
12-21-2007, 04:36 PM
Let's not put Mr. Ebony in the grave just yet please. With all the talk we hear about film going away which can be very discouraging, the idea of such a fine camera manufacturer going away anytime soon is too much to think about. I'm trying to be upbeat, and sometimes that is hard.
Robert N.

PHOTOTONE
12-21-2007, 05:30 PM
A lot of "view camera" type stuff is made by individual craftmen/women as a hobby pursuit. Sometimes this turns into a full-fledged business. Some people just don't want the hassle of a full-time business.

garysamson
12-22-2007, 08:56 AM
Not sure what your time line is but we (S&S) just made a batch of 30+ holders in 12X20 size and could deliver to your door in 2-3 weeks. You can order directly from S&S (me) , or through QCC in Atlanta, or through Richard Ritter for his cameras or modifications.


Sandy King

Sandy,
I am very interested in your offer, but here is the problem. I presently have four 12x20 holders that are made to Wisner's specs which are slightly different than your holder specs. If I am not mistaken, Richard Ritter would have to modify my back to accept your holders which would obsolete the holders I already have. If you or Richard have a solution for this I would love to work something out. Or if someone else shooting with a Wisner 12x20 wanted to acquire my holders I could make the switch to yours. Sandy, I have seen your holders and they are beautiful!
Gary

RobertP
12-22-2007, 10:35 AM
Gary , If the rib locks are off by enough, you may be able to just route another rib-lock groove to accept the new holders. Sandy or Richard is much more qualified than I am to assess this. But this may allow you to use both sets of holders. Just a thought.

sanking
12-22-2007, 03:21 PM
Gary , If the rib locks are off by enough, you may be able to just route another rib-lock groove to accept the new holders. Sandy or Richard is much more qualified than I am to assess this. But this may allow you to use both sets of holders. Just a thought.

In most cases the only difference between holders is the position of the rib lock. That is true if you compare AWB and S&S holders in 7X17, 8X20 and 12X20 size. Even the position of the rib lock with a certain brand may vary because of adjustments already made for existing cameras.

In any event, making sure that the rib lock drops into the groove on the camera back is the single most important thing one needs to do in buying holders for an existing camera. I am happy to provide assistance to anyone who has questions about this.

Sandy King

TracyStorer
12-22-2007, 08:36 PM
I suspect you'll find a "t-dimension" difference between Wisner holders and S+S holders. Something nagging my memory about that, but should definitely worth checking.

sanking
12-22-2007, 11:11 PM
I suspect you'll find a "t-dimension" difference between Wisner holders and S+S holders. Something nagging my memory about that, but should definitely worth checking.


Tracy,

Not sure what the t-dimension is for Wisner holders. It is a tad different for S&S and AWB. However, depth of focus of long lenses used at the apertures typically seen in ULF work is very great. I did the math on this on APUG at some point in the past but can not find the post now.

Depth of focus is the zone of sharpness surrounding the film plane, and is different from depth of field, which is the zone of sharpness surrounding the plane of focus. There is a good discussion of the topic, with relevant formulas that allow you to calculate depth of focus, in Way Beyond Monochrome by Ralph Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse.

If you take your large ULF camera out in the field with a lens of 300mm or more and use the back focus mechanism you will find that at an aperture of f/11 or so it is very hard to see any difference in sharpness over a span of several millimeters. The difference in t-dimension measured in most ULF holders is on the order of .1 - .3 millimeters.

From Lambrecht and Woodhouse.

"Depth of focus increases with the circle of confusion and magnification. It decreases with lens aperture and is at its minimum when the lens is focused at infinity."

Sandy King

Falkenberg
01-04-2008, 01:43 AM
Just a small follow up here in the new year. I still have had no contact with Wisner despite several mails.

Ted Harris
01-04-2008, 07:32 AM
For those that are interested, Michael Mutmansky has done an article for the January issue of View Camera that is a comprehensive report on all the ULF film holders currently available. Michael did extensive testing of the holders before writing the article.