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Falkenberg
12-20-2007, 02:58 PM
After reading all the threads on 20x24 cameras I can see that there are a lot of different cameras out there both home made and cameras from different "factories".

I would like to know what You consider the best detail on Your 20x24 outfit. Please post pictures of the details.

I have a clear idea of how my homemade 20x24 camera should be, but I am open to ideas from others. I am not out to start a production of 20x24 cameras and I am not in the market for a camera (unless it is dirt cheap).

sanking
12-20-2007, 05:14 PM
After reading all the threads on 20x24 cameras I can see that there are a lot of different cameras out there both home made and cameras from different "factories".

I would like to know what You consider the best detail on Your 20x24 outfit. Please post pictures of the details.

I have a clear idea of how my homemade 20x24 camera should be, but I am open to ideas from others. I am not out to start a production of 20x24 cameras and I am not in the market for a camera (unless it is dirt cheap).

The single most important detail of the 20X24 camera that Richard Ritter just made for me is the carbon fiber bed. It is this bed that allows for the very light weight. You can see a picture of this in the thread on 20X24 sighting.


Sandy King

mark
12-20-2007, 05:32 PM
(unless it is dirt cheap).

From what I understand even homemade does not fit this bill. Good luck.

Falkenberg
12-20-2007, 06:19 PM
I know very well that even a homemade camera will be expensive, but not as much as the prefabricated ones. And I get to have all my ideas made in the camera by making it myself.

Dave Wooten
12-20-2007, 07:40 PM
Mark, Good point. Dirt cheap doesn't even describe the price of a single sheet of film. I don't understand why someone would want to spend that kind of money on 20x24 film and then shoot it with a cobbled up shoe box for a camera........Sandy, I love the photo on Ritter's website of him jumping on top of the bed rails. Good stuff....Robert

Quality is the ticket...if one is seriously planning projects with this format, the highest quality equipment is the only way to go. It certainly pays off,
so the term "cheaper" does nt apply.

Curt
12-20-2007, 08:42 PM
Dirt cheap doesn't even describe the price of a single sheet of film. I don't understand why someone would want to spend that kind of money on 20x24 film and then shoot it with a cobbled up shoe box for a camera.

Me neither, except for that person who is so driven that they defy all odds, comes up with something that works for them. I never put down people with below the market level resources who make their own equipment.

Curt

David A. Goldfarb
12-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Well, sometimes the format size is a material part of the vision.

The Lotus I've seen has one of the nicest bail backs on any camera. It's not my camera, so I can't post a photo, but you can probably find a picture on the Lotus web site.

Dave Wooten
12-20-2007, 09:50 PM
Well, sometimes the format size is a material part of the vision.

The Lotus I've seen has one of the nicest bail backs on any camera. It's not my camera, so I can't post a photo, but you can probably find a picture on the Lotus web site.

Yep that bail is a really nice feature. If I remember correctly it was 2 bails-small ones with short throws...one on each side of the back.

keithwms
12-21-2007, 08:36 AM
In Magnachrom volume 1 issue 6 there is a nice feature on a Lotus 14x17.

Zebra
12-21-2007, 09:13 AM
Robert,

Who did you decide to go with for your 16 x 20 or do you have the skills to make one yourself? Good luck regardless, its mainly just me being curious and happy people are enjoying these larger formats.

Monty

Zebra
12-21-2007, 12:15 PM
Robert,

Alan will do a great job on the wet plate holder. My Ebony was built around an AWB holder system which was then shipped to Ebony so that it could be precise. I also had a 16 x 20 reducing back made at the same time for wet plate/pt pd work as well. In for a dime, in for a dollar. As to the deep pockets believe me I understand. I sold a piece of ground in Texas and negotiated in the price of the camera unbeknownst to the buyers. I figured I had one shot in life at something like this so I jumped in hoping there was water in the bottom of the pool. I have to feed the thing on 'real life' money though which makes for some interesting sacrifices around these parts! I don't regret it though. Life isn't as long as I would like it to be, might as well go up to edge and peer over every once in a while.

best,

Monty

epatsellis
12-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Me neither, except for that person who is so driven that they defy all odds, comes up with something that works for them. I never put down people with below the market level resources who make their own equipment.

Curt
It really depends on how much you enjoy building things. In my case, I have a plethora of 16x20 and 20x24 lith film, inexpensive lenses that cover and a packard shutter, as well as a set of bellows lying about. Would I prefer to use a nice new, geared everything camera, sure, but in reality, for very little $$$ outlay, I have the capability to shoot 20x24, and since I've been in alt-process land lately, the 16x20 or 20x24 negative gives me a few options as to print size. Building isn't for everybody, but if you enjoy it, why not go for it?


erie

Falkenberg
12-22-2007, 12:47 AM
I would like to see what an adapter for wet plate work looks like. Please post some pictures of a plate holder/adpater or what it is called. In my planning of how my perfect camera should be, I want to take every option into consideration. I want to make it as modular as possible.

mark
12-22-2007, 01:28 PM
I have no problem with someone building their own camera. Even the tried and true folks had to start somewhere. In fact I am a bit surprised about people's assumption that the OP will be cobbling together a shoe box. As photographers we are craftsman and as people who use BW you folks should immediately understand the desire to create something from beginning to end. I have no idea what level of wood craftsman the OP is but it seems clear that he knows what he is getting into.

It has been a dream of mine, for some time now, to design and build a camera that fits my needs.

Falkenberg
12-22-2007, 04:47 PM
Please can we get this thread back on track. Please post pictures and comments on the details that You love the most on Your cameras.

Colin Graham
12-23-2007, 01:17 PM
It seems like the singular great feature of a camera this size would be weight. Everything else is a distant second. I could probably use a 20x24 Ebony once...50lb? That's almost sack of concrete mix. My hat's off. I've toyed with the idea of torsion box construction to keep the weight down on a camera this size. The trick would be to keep the bulk down though. Hollow core doors are torsion boxes, if you ever lifted one it's amazing how light they are, essentially cardboard honeycombs laminated with very very thin plywood, but they're also notoriously easy to put hole in. In the end I'm glad I favor somewhat intimate contact prints, so I don't pursue it.

I think Ritter has performed a miracle of design with the carbon fiber 20x24, so it's certainly worth pursuing non traditional materials. Phillips' design looks like it could be parleyed into a 20x24 very easily. I'm not aware if he's ever made any camera bigger than 11x14.

Modularity seems straight forward enough- if the front and back are big enough you can adapt anything you want to them? Certainly no problem with any 20x24. But maybe you mean something else there.

Whenever I set out to make a camera for myself, the fun part is deciding what I want on it, and working out the problems in the design. I envy you this undertaking, seems there will be no shortage of interesting challenges. Good luck with the project.

Falkenberg
12-23-2007, 03:32 PM
Weight is #1. The lens I have in mind is 3.4 kg with the shutter. The Glas for the groundglas is heavy too. There could probably be many small weightsavings, but then again at what cost.

The modularity I want is the ability to change the rear end of the back in order to allow for use with a Polaroid system or to do wet plate work or just a simple way to be prepared for what ever comes along that might be fun to try working with. I want to be open to all possibilities.

A Charles
12-23-2007, 11:29 PM
Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.

sanking
12-25-2007, 04:13 PM
Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.


The RR 20X24 uses carbon fiber tubes. I would post a photo of the bed but am traveling and can not at this time. Even so, it is fairly complicated visually and I am not sure it would be easy to understand even with a good picture.

If I were to build a 20X24 camera again I would strongly consider the modular approach taken by Kerry Thalmann. I think the mono-rail design would be easier to assemble for most persons than a traditional wood bed design.

Sandy King

jgjbowen
12-25-2007, 06:57 PM
Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.

Head over to www.circleofthesunproductions.com and check out the ULF video. This is the manual for Richard Ritter's ULF cameras. It costs $15 and includes shipping. On the video, Richard gives a detailed explanation about how he arrived at Carbon Fiber, vs Aircraft Aluminum for his rail system. There is also some video of just the rail system and a sequence where Richard stands on the rail system. This was Richard's test to be sure the rail system would be able to handle anything we users were likely to throw at it.

I own a RR 7x17 and just love it. It is much lighter than my Zone VI 8x10.

PS Welcome to the Large Format Forum... whoops, welcome to apug