Came across this quote:
Photography is the only major art in which professional training and years of experience do not confer an insuperable advantage over the untrained and unexperienced - this for many reasons, among them the large role that chance (or luck) plays in the taking of pictures, and the bias toward the spontaneous, the rough, the imperfect.What do people think? Is this the prophecy that announced flickr?

Regards, Art.

was forced to read "on photography" at college. I thought it was complete gibberish which didn't go down well with the tutors. Funny thing was that she changed her mind on a lot of its content later. i.e. she exercised her perogative, or to put it another way she will say what ever ever comes into her head at the time.

Take whatever she says with a pinch of salt and remember the saying that "the harder I work, the luckier I get". Now who said that.

Serendipity has its part to play, but perspiration has a bigger part...

I strongly believe you make your own luck. Susan Sontag was never a photographer, and despite her widely read treatise, it's deeply flawed.

Luck plays a role, certainly, but experience allows you to make you're own luck to some extent. I don't agree with her statement that "Photography is the only major art in which professional training and years of experience do not confer an insuperable advantage...".
For, example, the highly regarded "primitive" artists who's work sells for 10's of thousands.

Barry

I tried to read Sontag but quickly dismissed it as nonsense and put it down. I've never felt the need to pick it up again ;)

First on Susan Sontag: She wrote 'On Photography' after a miserable affair with Richard Avedon. I believe to book was her way of winning all the arguments she lost to Richard. Second, her change of heart came when she finally had a successful relationship with another photographer - Annie Leibovitz. So her view of photography was strongly based on her emotions, not intellect.

Regarding luck. I've always mused that the difference between a good amateur photographer and a professional is that the professional knows WHEN to be lucky. Luck favors a prepared mind, as my buddy Steve Uzzell always says. http://www.steveuzzell.com/photo.html

"The harder I work, the luckier I get." Luck in photography is preparation meeting opportunity. If you know how to handle your camera and are in the correct spot at the right time, then you can get "lucky". I think applies more to news photography than art photography.

That being said, the advances in automation in the photographic process add favor to the amateur. Seventy or eighty years ago photography was the province of a few. Now, with automatic cameras and those "image recording devices" which are now incorporated into all sorts of electronic devices we have the opportunity to see a lot more photos. Just by the law of averages, some can approach art.

Luck can play a part, but then again there's the saying," chance favors the prepared mind". I think you can increase your frequency of being lucky by planning and preparation. Also while someone may have one or two great shots due to luck, one can get a far better read on the ability of a photographer by viewing that person's body of work. A few great shots is luck, a large portfolio of great work is skill and talent.

Idiotic, but I do accept that luck can be a part of the process on a very, very small percentage basis. Being at the right spot at the right time can be lucky, but "professional training and years of experience" can make all the difference in the world in taking advantage of that situation and coming away with something very artful.

happy accidents help sometimes
but so do other things

Came across this quote:
What do people think? Is this the prophecy that announced flickr?

Regards, Art.

I know a few photographers who, within the last decade or so, got started in the world of photography by taking a few 'lucky' shots before they had much of a clue as to what they were doing. These experiences of chance sparked them on to learn more about the history, the art and the craft of photography, and they are now doing fine work. However, I know, unfortunately, many more self-proclaimed 'photographers' who started out the same way, but went in a direction that I relate to the joke, "How many photographers does it take to screw in a light bulb? Answer: Two. One to screw it in and the other to say, "Pfffft, I could do that!" They have no interest in how photography got to this point and really learning the craft is a waste of time to them. ("Look at my photos! What is there to learn?") I see a big difference in the quality of work between the two groups. Luck by itself is a far cry from luck combined with experience and the passion to learn.

Now when you combine Sontag's quote with a thought about Flickr, well, you may have a point there, although, there is some good work on the site. I just look at Flickr as a photographic depository.

Marc

A good friend of mine was so affected by that book that he walked away from photography for a while. He insisted that I read it - made it about 10 pages and gave it back to him, suggesting that he switch to reading Dave Barry. :D

"Photography is the only major art in which professional training and years of experience do not confer an insuperable advantage over the untrained and unexperienced - this for many reasons, among them the large role that chance (or luck) plays in the taking of pictures, and the bias toward the spontaneous, the rough, the imperfect."

What's to argue with? She does say "insuperable" (unsurmountable). The law of averages favours the trained and experienced for per centage of keepers, but favours the untrained and inexperienced for sheer number of shots. In other words, take enough pictures and there will be some really good ones in there somewhere!

The harder I work, the luckier I get. (Take 4, nuff said.) :)

"Luck is the Residue of Design"

Cheers,
Bill

I think the quote has considerable validity to certain types of shooting such as "street" or much "PJ" work - where being in the right place at the right time is a almost a pre-condition to taking a "good" photo. Where such proximity to the photo opportunity is essential - technical proficiency is relatively less important. What is it they say about "timing being everything"?

At the same time, it would seem that the thought has little or no validity for portraiture and commercial work and similar "posed" contexts - where considerable technical training is required in a variety of areas such as lighting etc.

I think the quote has considerable validity to certain types of shooting such as "street" or much "PJ" work - where being in the right place at the right time is a almost a pre-condition to taking a "good" photo. Where such proximity to the photo opportunity is essential - technical proficiency is relatively less important. What is it they say about "timing being everything"?

At the same time, it would seem that the thought has little or no validity for portraiture and commercial work and similar "posed" contexts - where considerable technical training is required in a variety of areas such as lighting etc.

I would agree with George, to a certain extent, but I would add that being in being in the right place, at the right time, with the right gear, and the knowledge to use it, are all things that are diligently worked at, actually, worked at hard, by the PJ and street guys. The luck thing is greatly increased by "setting up" the conditions to be lucky. That's how I used to get dates with all those superfoxes.

If you're out there working, things will happen for you... If you're not, they won't. Pretty simple. Luck is god's gift to those ready to receive it.

The harder I work, the luckier I get. (Take 4, nuff said.) :)

Agreed!

And can we all finally agree that Sontag's works on photography are utter faux-intellectual nonsense? I am trying to be kind here.

Flickr is the Oort Cloud of photography.

I always subscribed to the equation L = P + O where L-luck, P-preparedness and O-opportunity.

If I remember correctly, Ansel Adams said Luck favors the prepared. which goes along with severl other one liners that we like to use.

I have always felt and tell my students, the harder one works the luckier they get.

basically the same thought.

I love this: "Flickr is the Oort Cloud of photography."

"f-16 and be there." That was HCB wasn't it?