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paxette
01-16-2008, 12:08 AM
I want to get some plate holders but I'm a bit confused. Besides the tambour, Thorton Pickard style and FDK holders will the others like Century, Seneca, Premo, Eastman, fit a Burke and James Commercial View?

Also, I'm wondering is there an easy way to identify a sheet film holder vs the older dry plate style? I've been searching that auction site but some times the seller: a) doesn't answer; b) doesn't know; c) I'm just as clueless as the sellers - heh; d) all of the above.

And, does anyone have a FDK 13x18 that they can give me the dimensions of? I'm thinking with some improvements they might fit the camera.

thanks in advance

Wayne
01-16-2008, 12:14 AM
I cant speak in a general sense but I have some old Folmer and Schwing 5x7 holders that double as film and plate holders. You can tell these by the metal sleeve insert that holds the film; a sliding latch at one end of the holder frame locks and releases the insert so you can take it out for use with plates. Handy dandy things.

Wayne

Ole
01-16-2008, 02:12 AM
In general, plate holders made for one camera won't fit another camera.

Most plate holders can be used with film with a sheet-metal insert; the sheaths were/are available separately.

The only true dual-purpose holders I'm aware of are the Linhof Universal Film & Plate holders; but these are for "modern" cameras. I don't know if these were made in 5x7" but in the case of plates I believe the 13x18cm holders can be used with 5x7" plates - it's film that is the problem here. In most other cases 5x7" and 13x18cm are almost but not quite interchangeable, as I discovered when I tried to use 5x7" inserts in 13x18cm plate holders: Two holders worked fine, but the insert dropped out of the third one when I pulled the dark slide...

paxette
01-16-2008, 10:14 PM
Thanks Wayne and Ole.

I'll keep an eye out for the Folmers too.

I was kinda hoping that at some point all those manufacturers got together and created standards for plate holder size ... (optimistic or naive?)

I'm not worried about them being able to accommodate sheet film, I want them for liquid emulsion on glass and to convert one to a wet plate holder.

paxette
02-18-2008, 03:31 PM
On a lark on day I typed 5x7 plate holder into google and a listing on craigslist appeared ...

9 DDS holders with 4x5 wooden plate holder inserts, 5x7 sheet film inserts and one for 2.2 x 3.5" plates arrived today. Once I get my camera back I'll post some shots of the innards just in case anyone else needs a visual reference. They're slightly thicker than the wooden sheet film holders stamped Folmer Graflex Corp and 5x7 Eastman Film. Otherwise they are the same dimensions as the more modern holders.

It doesn't look like the 4x5 inserts need much modification for wet plate either.

(soooo relieved this part of my search is over, what a PITA it has been)

Whiteymorange
02-18-2008, 05:08 PM
In general, plate holders made for one camera won't fit another camera.

Ole, I have wanted to comment on this in previous posts, but hesitated posting anything that could seem to be correcting those who clearly know more than I do. I have a Folmer and Schwing 5x7 and a Rochester Optical 5x7. All of the holders I have, including the newer ones (Fidelity) and the various yard sale, auction and Ebay varieties I've bought, fit both cameras nicely. Perhaps it is only the newer cameras which are picky, preferring their own brand?

In general, I think any holder made of wood is likely to be a plate holder. It may or may not come with a film insert, but I've yet to come across a wooden holder exclusively designed for film.

Ole
02-19-2008, 02:42 AM
Whitey, I have several wooden film-only holders. I also have metal film holders, plastic film holders, metal plate holders, wodden plate holders and plastic plate holders; as well as "plate or cut film" holders in both wood and plastic.

In general it's only newer cameras that are not picky; old European plate cameras are a complete mess of different incompatible plate holders. The FKD cameras are the exception - their holders are still incompatible with everything else.

Whiteymorange
02-19-2008, 06:37 AM
Whitey, I have several wooden film-only holders. I also have metal film holders, plastic film holders, metal plate holders, wodden plate holders and plastic plate holders; as well as "plate or cut film" holders in both wood and plastic.

In general it's only newer cameras that are not picky; old European plate cameras are a complete mess of different incompatible plate holders. The FKD cameras are the exception - their holders are still incompatible with everything else.

OK. Thanks for that. Guess I've just been lucky in what I've bought.

Luddite Frank
03-05-2008, 08:30 PM
Generally, plate-holders have a semi-circular notch at the end opposite the dark-slide, so that one can depress the bottom rail & spring to remove the plate.

Film holders usually do not have this notch, and usually have a cloth-tape "hinge" that allows the bottom of the holder to flip-open for loading / unloading.

Luddite Frank

paxette
03-09-2008, 04:02 AM
Thanks Frank.

I kinda suspected but, auctions like this one (ebay id: 170198992058) threw me. I have a wooden sheet film holder that looks exactly the same on the outside as the ones sold yet, the seller says they're ansco dry plate holders.

Luddite Frank
03-15-2008, 01:50 PM
This seems to be tricky territory...

I have Kodak / Folmer 5x7 sheet-film holders that appear to be post- WW-II, and are black-stained wood, with metal fittings at the dark-slide end.

I also have several 4x5 / 5x7 sheet-film holders that are in nice varnished "furniture-quality" frames.

Then there are the true plate-holders: these are usually varnished, and have the semi-circular notch. ( I am sure there were black-stained plate holders too, but plate photography seems to have declined rapidly by WW-II).

I was playing around with my Rochester Optical cameras and variety of film-holders, and did discover something: the Rochester OPTICAL Co. & Premo cameras all seem to be compatible with modern film -holders (ie: the ridge for the light-trap corresponds to the groove in the camera back). I found one 5x7 Rochester CAMERA Co. (Poco) that has this ridge in a different place, and will NOT engage the light-trap groove in the "standard" view camera back...

At some point in the 1890's, "Rochester Optical Co." and "Rochester Camera Co." combined ( and were eventually bought by Eastman), but I don't know if /when they standardized backs & film-holders between the "Premo" and "Poco" cameras...

I also have a plate-holder that holds a 5x7 plate, but the outside dimensions are too large to fit a standard 5x7 back... ?

I am somewhat dumbfounded by the prices that 5x7 film holders are fetching... quite a bit for a "dead" format (as my friends all tell me)...

Luddite Frank

snallan
03-15-2008, 04:17 PM
I am somewhat dumbfounded by the prices that 5x7 film holders are fetching... quite a bit for a "dead" format (as my friends all tell me)...

Luddite Frank

I agree with you there. I think the problem is, camera manufacturers have sidelined the 5x7 format for many years, but there are a lot of photographers picking up these cameras because they like the format, but the holders have not been produced for quite some time. So if they do appear on auction sites, there are quite a lot of photographers trying to get hold of them!

I have been lucky in picking up 13x18 cm, and half plate film holders, primarily because I think some owners of 5x7 cameras have not considered them as 5x7 holders. Film formats I can either get directly, or trim to size in the darkroom.

PS. Oooops, should I have really said that. Actually, on APUG people probably realise that, but I think on the big auction site, they can slip past!