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View Full Version : How do you process your 4x10?



Don Dudenbostel
02-18-2008, 08:24 PM
I've been in the LF world since 1964 but have always shot standard size film. I've either processed in deep tanks with hangers or in a merz or colenta rotary tube machine. I still have the tanks and hangers but sold or trashed the rotary machines a few years ago. Now I'm thinking of a 4x10 camera or back for my 8x10 and don't know what options are out there for processing this format. How do you process your B&W? I'm guessing most will say tray so how do you prevent scratching? Any way to run it in a Jobo?

Thanks!

Deckled Edge
02-18-2008, 08:34 PM
Don,
I was a tray guy for many years, but I couldn't absolutely avoid scratches, no matter how hard I tried to convince myself that after all these years I was a pro. I recently went to Chromega drums with a bi-directional rotating base. The negatives are far superior to anything I ever did with trays. I'll never go back. The 4x10 negatives will go nicely into an 8x10 drum, two at a time, with the right spacer.
The drums are available on e-Bay relatively cheap. You can own 30 of each for the price of a Jobo set-up.

Don Dudenbostel
02-18-2008, 08:42 PM
Thanks for the information. I didn't know if there were hangers available or what. By the way your gallery is excellent. Very nice work. Something I've noticed on this forum is the generally high quality of work.

Monophoto
02-18-2008, 09:02 PM
Don -

I have not worked in the 4x10 format, but I have been giving it a lot of thought recently.

I have been using a slosher tray to process 4x5 negatives, and I am really pleased with the uniformity and total lack of scratching that comes from processing each sheet in its own "container".

It would not be difficult to construct a slosher to process 4x10 sheets - either two sheets at a time (side by side) in a slightly oversized 8x10 tray, or three sheets in an 11x14 tray.

Don Dudenbostel
02-18-2008, 09:17 PM
Never heard of a slosher tray??? Dividers in a tray and rock it? Sounds like the old color canoe from the late 60's.

Monophoto
02-18-2008, 09:20 PM
That's exactly what it is - a cradle-like insert that is divided into compartments slightly larger than individual sheets of film, and with lots of holes to allow chemicals to move in and around the film as it is being processed. Agitate by rocking in the tray. Principle advantage is that the individuals sheets are processed face up so that the only thing that ever touches the emulsion is chemical - sheets never touch each other. Mine is homemade, but there are commercial versions.

Here's a link to a thread in LF Forum that includes a picture of my slosher.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=20491&highlight=slosher

Vaughn
02-19-2008, 02:20 AM
I use a 8x10, and also have a trimmed darkslide that I use to get two 4x10's on a sheet of 8x10 film. So I process two 4x10's as a single sheet of 8x10. I use a razor blade and a straight edge to separate the two once they are processed and dry.

I process in a Jobo 3005 drum on a motor base. I have never heard of anyone putting single 4x10 sheets in a 3005, but it might work. I use to do trays, but only one neg per tray...a lot of time in the dark!

I like the flexibility of being able to do both formats and needing only a 2 to 3 ounce darkslide to get that second format. In the same holder, I have had an 8x10 on one side and two 4x10's on the other. Another plus is that my developing can be geared towards one film size, yet handle two formats without any change in gear or process.

The main advantage of a dedicated 4x10 system would be much lighter weight compared to an 8x10...probably not half, but getting down there.

Vaughn

Scott Squires
02-19-2008, 08:35 PM
Don

I have been using a Jobo 3005 8x10 drum for my 4x10 for about a year now, both b&w and E-6. After several hundred sheets I have not had one problem. I put one 4x10 sheet in each 8x10 cylinder. I am using a CPP-2 but for b&w a manual roller and the 3005 would work fine and doing 5 sheets at a time is great.

Scott Squires

Don Dudenbostel
02-21-2008, 03:06 PM
Manual roller as in Uniroller?

Scott Squires
02-21-2008, 08:16 PM
Don

I have a manual Jobo roller as a backup for my CPP-2, but have never had to use it. I got it from B&H and it was about $30. You can adjust the rollers to fit the various Jobo drums. I have to believe as long as the drum fits on the rollers, any roller setup should work fine.

Scott

deisenlord
02-21-2008, 09:57 PM
I use a unicolor 8x10 PRINT drum, the one with the ridges inside. You can do two sheets with the little rubber gizmo to separate the sheets. I use a simple motorized base. Works well and dirt cheap.
Ike

k_jupiter
02-25-2008, 03:09 AM
deisenlord has the right idea. Unicolor 8x10 drum, motorized base, Pyrocat HD. Make it easy and put a sheet of nylon screen behind the film. That will allow the chemicals to wash away the anti-halation layer off the back of the film.

I have done lots of 5x7 that way. Nice results.

tim in san jose

Deckled Edge
02-27-2008, 12:17 PM
deisenlord has the right idea. Unicolor 8x10 drum, motorized base, Pyrocat HD. Make it easy and put a sheet of nylon screen behind the film. That will allow the chemicals to wash away the anti-halation layer off the back of the film.

I have done lots of 5x7 that way. Nice results.

tim in san jose

Ike mentioned the ridges in the Unicolor drums (also present in the Chromega drums, which have nicer separaters). I have found that the ridges allow enough fluid movement behind the negative to adequately remove the antihalation layer without the need for an additional screen. The Beseler and, possibly--I've only seen pictures--the Cibachrome drums don't have the ridges, and the negative might hug the inside of the drum.
The Beseler motor base is unidirectional, while the Unicolor base is bidirectonal, so you get better "slosh" and very nice, even development with a minimum of chemistry.

k_jupiter
02-27-2008, 01:56 PM
Ike mentioned the ridges in the Unicolor drums (also present in the Chromega drums, which have nicer separaters). I have found that the ridges allow enough fluid movement behind the negative to adequately remove the antihalation layer without the need for an additional screen. The Beseler and, possibly--I've only seen pictures--the Cibachrome drums don't have the ridges, and the negative might hug the inside of the drum.
The Beseler motor base is unidirectional, while the Unicolor base is bidirectonal, so you get better "slosh" and very nice, even development with a minimum of chemistry.

I looked. It is a Besseler tank, not unicolor. I have placed a piece of plastic Ibeam in the groove provided that keeps the negs in place, there are no other ridges so screen is useful.

I also time my rotations, after very minute, I flip the tank over to prevent the Bromide drag you can get from uni-directional processing.

tim in san jose

TheFlyingCamera
02-27-2008, 02:40 PM
I do my 5x12s in the Jobo 3005 drum. They fit just fine, one sheet per tube. You could do 4x10s the same way - I'd be leery of doing 2x 4x10 per tube, because of the possibility of the sheets slipping and overlapping during the process.

Chadlanc
04-16-2008, 10:51 PM
newlab here in San Francisco develops my 4x10 Fuji provia slides

Neanderman
04-17-2008, 10:47 AM
I didn't know if there were hangers available or what.

If you know someone skilled in the art of welding stainless, it would probably not be too hard to cut down some 8x10 hangers.

Ed