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DBP
07-23-2008, 10:52 AM
Am I the only one who found this list disappointing? Three Leicas, two Rolleis, and yet no mention of Nikon or Graflex? Has no one over there heard of newspapers?

tjaded
07-23-2008, 10:54 AM
Is the list available online?

Ian Grant
07-23-2008, 10:55 AM
You might post a link, or type out the list, not everyone reads Shutterbug, please . . . . :D

Ian

Michel Hardy-Vallée
07-23-2008, 11:08 AM
http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/classic_historical/0408top20/index.html
http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/classic_historical/0508classic/index.html
http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/classic_historical/0708classic/index.html

David A. Goldfarb
07-23-2008, 11:17 AM
Have they listed the top five yet? MHV's links show 20-6.

The emphasis of this selection seems to be mainly on cameras you wouldn't really want to use, with a couple of notable exceptions, but that transformed photography in some important way.

tjaded
07-23-2008, 11:26 AM
Having not seen the top five yet, I would have to hope and assume a Speed Graphic hits the list...

Michel Hardy-Vallée
07-23-2008, 11:33 AM
I presume the top 5 will be in next month's issue (August). Couldn't see anything on the S'bug website.

keithwms
07-23-2008, 11:37 AM
I find the lists at camerareview more sensible, if you actually plan to use the cameras....

Medium Format top 20:

(the first 6 are tied for #1 and have few reviews so I group them together...)

Camera / # reviews / score
Arca Swiss F 6x9 6 5.00
Rollei SL66 SE 1 5.00
Rolleiflex 2.8 FX 1 5.00
Silvestri T30 1 5.00
Fuji GX-680 II 1 5.00
Linhof Technikardan 23 1 5.00
Hasselblad 903SWC 20 4.95
Rollei 6008 Integral 34 4.88
Hasselblad 503CW 47 4.83
Rollei 6003 Professional 14 4.79
Mamiya RZ67 22 4.77
Rolleiflex 2.8 GX 49 4.69
Mamiya 7 32 4.69
Mamiya 6/6MF 16 4.69
Pentax 645N 25 4.68
Rollei SL66 15 4.67
Hasselblad 553ELX 3 4.67
Fuji G-617 3 4.67
Horseman SW612 PRO 3 4.67
Pentax 645 20 4.65
Mamiya 7 II 28 4.64
Mamiya RB67 44 4.64
Hasselblad 203FE 8 4.63
Mamiya C220 TLR (1968) 27 4.59
Contax 645 36 4.58
Pentax 67 II

35mm top 20:

Olympus OM-1 (1972) 61 4.87
Canon T90 (1986) 67 4.82
Pentax PZ-IP 157 4.80
Leica M7 7 4.71
Leica Leicaflex SL2 (1974) 20 4.70
Minolta SRT 99 4.65
Olympus OM 3Ti 14 4.64
Pentax MX 93 4.63
Canon EOS 650 (1987) 50 4.62
Pentax LX 44 4.61
Minolta Maxxum 800si 64 4.61
Nikon F4 138 4.61
Contax G2 157 4.61
Pentax K1000 (1977) 160 4.60
Pentax ZX-5N 102 4.60
Canon A-1 (1977) 89 4.60
Minolta Maxxum 700si 44 4.59
Minolta Maxxum 7 70 4.59
Canon EOS Elan 7/7E 101 4.58
Contax RTS III 24 4.58

DBP
07-23-2008, 01:14 PM
The Top 20 Cameras Of All-Time
20) Kodak Instamatic 100 - 1963
19) Reflex-Korelle - 1935
18) Hansa Canon - 1935
17) Rolleiflex Automat - 1936
16) Zeiss Contax II - 1936
15) Asahiflex IIB—1954
14) Sony Mavica—1981
13) Contax S—1949
12) Hasselblad 1600F—1948
11) Rolleiflex (Original Model)—1929
10) Leica M3—1954
9) Konica C35AF—1979
8) Minolta Maxxum 7000—1985
7) Kodak Super Six-20—1938
6) Polaroid 95—1948

They haven't put the last five online yet, but it includes the Leica A, the Leica D, the original Kodak, and the Kodak Brownie. Can't remember the 5th.

eclarke
07-23-2008, 01:18 PM
A list like this is just too subjective..in my world the top 20 would all be view cameras!!..EC

Ian Grant
07-23-2008, 01:41 PM
There are some interesting cameras in that list. The Contax S which of course is the first modern looking 35mm SLR caused lawsuits after the war when production continued on newer versions in East Germany. Compared to the West German post War Zeiss SLR's it was streets ahead.

The Kodak Super Six, I've never seen one before, looks an amazing camera if it had been improved/upgraded it would have been a world beater.

It is a very subjective list, and assuming they are looking at consumer cameras there's 5 they haven't listed that I'd either want to buy or expect yo see on the list.

Leica IIIg or Reid 3
Olympus Pen FT
Pentax Spotmatic
Zeiss Sper Ikonta
Olympus OM1

And the most important camera of all time probably won't make the list - the Kodax Box Brownie - that took photography to the people.

Ian

Ian Grant
07-23-2008, 01:44 PM
And for Mr Clarke :D

5 Deardorff
4 Gandolfi
3 Agfa Ansco (Scoville or Antony & Scoville)
2 Watson
1 Sanderson

Ian

DBP
07-23-2008, 01:46 PM
There are some interesting cameras in that list. The Contax S which of course is the first modern looking 35mm SLR caused lawsuits after the war when production continued on newer versions in East Germany. Compared to the West German post War Zeiss SLR's it was streets ahead.

The Kodak Super Six, I've never seen one before, looks an amazing camera if it had been improved/upgraded it would have been a world beater.

It is a very subjective list, and assuming they are looking at consumer cameras there's 5 they haven't listed that I'd either want to buy or expect yo see on the list.

Leica IIIg or Reid 3
Olympus Pen FT
Pentax Spotmatic
Zeiss Sper Ikonta
Olympus OM1

And the most important camera of all time probably won't make the list - the Kodax Box Brownie - that took photography to the people.

Ian


The Box Brownie came in the top five, along with the original Kodak.

DBP
07-23-2008, 01:49 PM
I think I now remember the other one in the top five is the Kine Exakta - but I wouldn't swear to it. Still seems to me that any list that excludes the Nikon F and the all the Graflexes is missing a major hunk of photographic history.

Ian Grant
07-23-2008, 01:56 PM
Yes I forgot the Exacta, amazing cameras I'd love another.

I think the Graflexes aren't there because they are professional cameras, not mainstream. So can you remember the other 2 ?

Ian

DBP
07-23-2008, 02:01 PM
Leica A, Leica D, Kine Exakta, Kodak Brownie, and Original Kodak are the top five, as far as I can recall.

Ian Grant
07-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Strange, what they've actually listed are landmarks in camera evolution, yes they are all key cameras in consumer camera evolution but they aren't the "Top Twenty Cameras of all Time".

As you say you can't leave out the Nikon F . . . . . . and I'd add the Spotmatic.

Ian

TheDreadPirateRobins
07-23-2008, 02:17 PM
Any sort of list like this is going to be highly subjective unless the playing field is leveled (with parameters such as format and cost when new) and actual performance criteria are introduced.

I happen to think that my Spotmatics are just about the coolest things ever, but I am sure that there's someone else out there who thinks that devotion to the Spotmatic is just idiotic.

Also, why would no view cameras or pinhole cameras be included on the list? I would say that, more than some of these on the list, Louis Daguerre's original device or William Fox Talbot's early work with negatives ought to have made the list.

I may have also added the Holga to the list. Technically, it falls far behind most of these other cameras, but on the other hand it's low price and wide availability has brought photography to many folks the world over.

2F/2F
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
IMO, they need a Graphic, a Rollei, a Barnack Leica, and the Nikon F in the top five for sure...especially the Nikon F, the first modern-style 35mm large-system SLR to be hugely popular among professionals. The other one in my top 5, as much as I personally dislike the camera, would be the Canon AE-1, the camera that put SLRs into the hands of every Tom, Dick, and Harry and started the current trend of high quality cameras that a monkey could operate...not to mention making Canon *extremely* rich and setting the stage for their near takeover of the market in the autofocus and digital age, not to mention the diversity of products that they now offer.

Also, how could they have this list without a Sinar (and a Linhof) or an RB67? Come on....the commercial photographer's go-to axes for decades and they leave them off the list.....

But these lists are always stupid and irrelevant anyhow.

Jim Noel
07-23-2008, 02:59 PM
I own and use 3 on the list form Camera Review, but they certainly would not make my list of top 20. I have 4 others I would rate higher.