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Soeren
09-22-2008, 02:25 AM
Thanks Ian.
I was getting a bit woried :)

Ole
09-22-2008, 12:28 PM
The plane of focus won't be any different because the plate or film emulsion rest against the same guides. The adaptor is there to ensure the film lies flat and is pressed against those guides.

Ian.

No Ian, the film emulsion will be 0.3mm farther back than the plate emulsion when using film sheath inserts.

The adapter is there to hold the film flat and in place, but the folded-over edges mean that the emulsion is offset by 0.3mm.

Soeren
09-22-2008, 01:56 PM
So will I have to recalibrate the ground glass for what Ill be using in the camera?
Kind regards

Mark Layne
09-22-2008, 02:18 PM
Thanks, I've had some emails & PM's asking about Zeiss code numbers, so I gave a link tom some Zeiss catalogues.

Am I right in thinking that the Ideal takes different holders to the Maximar ? My guess is that the Ikon model range is derived from models from the companies who formed Zeiss Ikon, and the holder type differ for taht reason.

I may have some film holders to swap, I have a number that don't fit any of my 9x12 cameras,as well as a Rollex back. As far as I can see they fit Maximar's.

Ian

Ian
The Ideal takes special clip on holders, the Maximar takes the common slide in holder that also fits Bergheils etc.
The Juwels, Favorites, Tropicas take special double sided clip on holders.
My 9x12 Juwel came with a Zeiss made adapter to take the common slide in holders.
There is also the American made Mica slide in back which takes standard 3.25x4.25 double sided American holders

Mark

Mark Layne
09-22-2008, 02:24 PM
No Ian, the film emulsion will be 0.3mm farther back than the plate emulsion when using film sheath inserts.

The adapter is there to hold the film flat and in place, but the folded-over edges mean that the emulsion is offset by 0.3mm.

Most of the adapters I have are designed to let the film pop forward to the correct plane when the dark slide is removed, but I wouldn't recommend using any of these things without focusing.

If anyone knows of a 10x15 Favorit for sale please let me know. I have the folders and the film but not the camera to use it
Mark

Ian Grant
09-22-2008, 02:25 PM
Not really necessary because at f4.5 a 135mm lens has a DOF of 0.9 metres focussed at 5 metres, and the 0.3 shift equates to 6 centimetres at 5 metres, so it's not particularly significant. (I used DOF calculations for 6x9 film). Once you stop down to f5.6 or f8 it's totally irrelevant.

If you were doing extreme close up's then the shift would be relevant.

Ian

gandolfi
09-23-2008, 12:47 PM
:D
just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!:p

as the image show, it came with the Heliar 13.5cm - 6 plateholders and 6 different filters/push on lenses. (yellow - green/yellow - orange, and a wide angle push on lens and a tele push on lens + a little diffusion disk...)

and all in the original, very well kept leather box.

fantastic condition for the price (all in all ca 200€ or 300$)

when looking at the cassettes, I noticed that 4 of then is with the 6x9 inlay - not 9x12.., but Stine has an ols Linhof technicaIII, and the old cassettes (inlays) fit perfectly in the Bergheil cassettes! Problem solved!

the camera is with interchangeble lenses, so I can't wait to try this out.
Of course with the Heliar, but also with my new Dynar and other small lenses..

I am a happy man today - and so are Stine (not a man though..) as the lens can be directly fitted on her Linhof:)

JPD
09-23-2008, 04:53 PM
:D
Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!:pNice Bergheil. I bought one last month, also in excellent condition. :D

Soeren
09-24-2008, 01:41 AM
:D
just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!:p

as the image show, it came with the Heliar 13.5cm - 6 plateholders and 6 different filters/push on lenses. (yellow - green/yellow - orange, and a wide angle push on lens and a tele push on lens + a little diffusion disk...)

and all in the original, very well kept leather box.

fantastic condition for the price (all in all ca 200€ or 300$)

when looking at the cassettes, I noticed that 4 of then is with the 6x9 inlay - not 9x12.., but Stine has an ols Linhof technicaIII, and the old cassettes (inlays) fit perfectly in the Bergheil cassettes! Problem solved!

the camera is with interchangeble lenses, so I can't wait to try this out.
Of course with the Heliar, but also with my new Dynar and other small lenses..

I am a happy man today - and so are Stine (not a man though..) as the lens can be directly fitted on her Linhof:)

Con gratulations Emil. So it was you who bought that one :mad: I envy you.
I should learn to keep my mouth shut :) Sorry for infecting you with that bug at the APUG meeting in Vrå. Thanks for a nice weekend BTW. Have you tried it out yet?
Kind regards

P C Headland
09-24-2008, 04:29 AM
:D
just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!:p
.....


Nice looking camera! Can't wait to see some pictures from it.

Steve Smith
09-24-2008, 06:28 AM
Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!


I have just done a bit of a search on Bergheil and unless I am mistaken, I think I have one.

I certainly have a similar camera with the spring loaded lens release mechanism. Mine didn't come with a lens or its associated mounting plate but I'm sure the catch on the body is the same. Can you post a close up of this area so I can compare them?



Steve.

Ian Grant
09-25-2008, 02:12 AM
Steve, there were about 30 different manufacturers producing very similar looking cameras, mainly in Germany, up until the end of the 1930's. Some of them use common parts, or possibly copied parts.

It would be better to post some images of your camera.

Ian

Steve Smith
09-25-2008, 02:30 AM
Steve, there were about 30 different manufacturers producing very similar looking cameras, mainly in Germany, up until the end of the 1930's. Some of them use common parts, or possibly copied parts.

You are right. I have two or three of these but only one has the catch for a quick release lens plate.

I forgot to look at it last night though.

I was going to make a plate to permanently fit to the front but if there is a possibility of making a plate which works with this catch, I might give it a go (after I finished the hundreds of other things I have started or thought about doing!).




Steve.

Ian Grant
09-25-2008, 03:44 AM
Steve, I have noticed at least two UK sellers on ebay who quite obviously strip the lenses off 9x12cm cameras and sell them separately, a good the lens on it's own sells for far more than a complete 9x12 camera, in the UK.

Somewhere I have an image of a non-Voightlander 9x12 which took interchangeable lenses, with a bayonet mount. My guess though is if yours is a Bergheil someone sold the original lens for 5x4 use. My Rodenstock camera with an excellent Eurynar cost me around £30, currently 2 Eurynars are on Ebay for £120 +£125.

Ian

Steve Smith
09-25-2008, 03:54 AM
My guess though is if yours is a Bergheil someone sold the original lens for 5x4 use.

That would be my guess too even if it isn't a Bergheil as I bought it without a lens.

I had planned to make it into a simple, lightweight 5x4 camera with a basic film holder and use a modified film holder with a ground glass for focussing but as I have a few holders which fit it and it's original ground glass viewer, I may keep it as it is.

I did buy another, similar camera without the lens mount which was not in good condition. I bought it for the lens, a Zeiss 135mm Tessar, to use on my home made 5x4. Despite reports to the contrary, it does cover 5x4 with limited movements. This lens could be put back to use on a 9x12cm camera.

Another interesting thing I found was that all of my 9x12cm film (glass plate actually) holders were fitted with supplementary holders to take 2" x 3" plates.


Steve.

Ian Grant
09-25-2008, 04:07 AM
The 135mm f4.5 Tessar was very common on 9x12 cameras usually on the top of the range models, only really Voightlander and other camera/lens manufacturers like Rodenstock & Goerz didn't use thems. They were also often fitted on 5x4 Speed/Crown Graphics, they do cover 5x4 but edge/corner sharpness is poor until f16 and best at f22.

Ian

gandolfi
09-27-2008, 09:21 AM
I have just done a bit of a search on Bergheil and unless I am mistaken, I think I have one.

I certainly have a similar camera with the spring loaded lens release mechanism. Mine didn't come with a lens or its associated mounting plate but I'm sure the catch on the body is the same. Can you post a close up of this area so I can compare them?



Steve.

hi steve.
here are two images for you.
the first is the frontplate of the Bergheil. The second, the back of the lens..

Hope that was what you was asking about. (?)

emil

Mark Layne
09-28-2008, 07:51 AM
Zeiss Ideal, Favorit, Juwel and others all had removeable lenses but a photograph of the camera would easily identify it. The Zeiss lenses have two bayonet ears extending outside the shutter housing, the Bergheil uses a flange behind the shutter.
Mark

elekm
09-29-2008, 05:02 PM
I have a Zeiss Ikon Miroflex, which is a fairly amazing camera:

Reflex viewing, a focal plane cloth shutter with speeds to 1/2000 and an interchangeable lens (with some effort). The standard lens is a 15cm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar.

Of course, the challenge is to find one that doesn't need new curtains, is working on all speeds and has a ground glass screen and focusing hood intact.

Otherwise, great camera.

Soeren
11-20-2008, 07:13 AM
Hmm Did I post this link to a site on some Voigtländer plate and roll filmcameras
http://www.cinci.de/index.html

kind regards