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Soeren
11-10-2008, 02:19 AM
May not be the exact right forum but since the Bergheil was original a plate camera Ill post it here.
Does any one know anything about the Voigtländer packfilm holder?
When was it introduced and how does it work?
Kind regards

Ian Grant
11-10-2008, 03:08 AM
There were various fit 9x12 Pack film holder, they must have been introduced in the 1920's (Perhaps earlier) as the 1930 adverts for Patent Etui's mention they take plates, film packs and roll-film holders.

The holders themselves are very simple, similar to 5x4 film pack holders, there's a couple of patents that show how the packs themselves work, I have a PDF somewhere. Unfortunately no company has made film packs for quite a number of years.

Ian

Soeren
11-10-2008, 03:21 AM
So one need films in packs like readyloads or Polaroid packs. :( Is it possible to DIY something usable?
Damn seems like Im in the market for some Voigtländer plate/cutfilmholders :mad: :p
Kind regards

Ian Grant
11-10-2008, 03:49 AM
The packs were quite different to Fuji Ready loads or Polaroid, the exposed sheet of film is returned to the pack after exposure. The DIY load yourself equivalent is the Grafmatic film backs.

Ian

Soeren
11-10-2008, 04:57 AM
The grafmatic??
Kind regards

Ian Grant
11-10-2008, 05:11 AM
Grafmatics (http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/) are film packs with metal septums that hold each dheet of film. Unfortunately not made in 9x12 though.

Ian

Soeren
11-10-2008, 06:06 AM
Yeah I know. Gotta find me some plateholders and sheaths then.
Kind regards

HerrBremerhaven
11-10-2008, 01:01 PM
In theory, you could get 9x12 film, find some old filmpack parts, and assemble them. However, I think you might find that lots of film gets destroyed in the process. Perhaps just some 9x12 film holders, and use your Bergheil one sheet of film at a time?

I also have a 9x12 Bergheil. When I got it there was a glass plate holder (I think) and an adapter to use 4x5 film. I don't know if the 4x5 film holder adapter was a common accessory, but you might try finding one of those, because it will fit modern 4x5 holders and film.

http://www.gordonmoat.com/cgi-bin/i/Bergheil/SANY0374.jpg

You can see many more images of my Bergheil at http://www.gordonmoat.com/Bergheil/ and see the adapter. I included the Shen-Hao as a comparison in size, because the Bergheil is really small compared to a modern 4x5.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Ole
11-10-2008, 01:08 PM
I use my Bergheil(s) with plate holders and sheaths. Or RADA rollfilm backs.

Or even packfilm holders - I have a few old packs left. And a couple of packs of glass plates. :D

Ian Grant
11-10-2008, 01:23 PM
Gordon, didn't you manage to sell that Voightlander !!!

There are inserts for all 9x12 plate holders to take film, they do come up for sale on ebay and Ole posted a link to a site selling them (I never had a reply to my email).

There were adaptors made in the US to adapt a 9x12 to take modern 5x4 double darkslides, this has to include a new focus screen as the film plane is shifted back from the original. There is reprted to be a semi-retired camera repairman in the US who still makes these adaptors.

Søren, you're in the right part of the world to find plate holders, search ebay.de remember your Logon details are the same for any Ebay site.

The plate holder film conversion insert is just a simple piece of black painted metal with edge folds to hold the film and I plan to make my own on my next trip back to the UK.

Ian

HerrBremerhaven
11-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Hello Ian,

I had one inquiry on my Bergheil, but the deal fell through. They are not very common on EBAY in 9x12 size, so I have been hesitating to list it. Definitely would be nice if someone was using it, because at the moment I have so much with my working cameras that I don't see myself making any use of it; so for now it is a dust collector.

I am not entirely sure about the one holder I have for my Bergheil, though it seems to be a glass plate holder. However, after looking at several other examples, I am thinking it might be some sort of pack film holder. There is an open slit in the top when the clamshell is closed. I think if a glass plate was in there, light might interfere. However, if there was a filmpack in this holder, then I could see that the slit might make it easier to use. It is finished like the camera, though it does not state Voigtländer anywhere on it, despite that it perfectly fits the camera.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Soeren
11-11-2008, 12:34 AM
As Ian mentioned Im in the 9X12 part of the world and I plan to use it with 9X12 film and maybe play around with some liquid emulsion on glass plates.
Are all the holders for these cameras plate holders with inserts?
Kind regards

Ole
11-11-2008, 01:30 AM
Gordon, only pack film holders close like a clamshell. Plate holders are very thin, and have a small sprung catch to hold the plate in place. With the darkk slide in place there are no openings.

Søren - the film inserts can be difficult to find. Then suddenly there are lots on the market, before they vanish again. The same inserts fit all holders, but the majority of holders you find are without them. :(

Ian Grant
11-11-2008, 01:38 AM
All the plate holders need inserts for film, and it's rare to find them sold together as Ole says, I've never come across any. The 9x12 plate holders I have all grip the glass plates by the top and bottom (short) edges, the inserts hold the cut film by the long edges.

Ian

HerrBremerhaven
11-11-2008, 05:17 PM
Thanks Ole for the confirmation. I definitely have the old 9x12 pack film holder. However, it did not come with any inserts.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Anastigmatic
11-12-2008, 08:05 AM
perhaps a few pictures will make it clearer...

its easy for people to get mixed up between the different named parts, more so if they havn't seen them before; which are basically four different things shown here, in these pics; plate holder, film or often called sheath holder, film pack holder and lastely the film pack itself

pic 1 shows a plate holder with a glass plate negative inserted, the darkslide for the plate holder is to the right.

pic 2 shows the glass plate being removed, acheived by inserting your finger at the top and downward pressure against springs in the botton of the plate holder. doing that frees it from the top and can be lifted out easily

pic 3 shows a film sheath/holder being inserted in the plate holder.

pic 4 shows it fits in by the same manner in which you would insert the glass plate negative. by inserting the bottom first against the springs in the plate holder

pic 5 shows, which is now in effect become sheet film holder (and the darkslide being inserted. unless you want to use glass sheets any time in the future the sheaths never need to be removed again. the sheet film slides in under the edges of the film sheath.

pic 6 shows the film pack holder (bottom) with its darkslide inserted (mentioned as a clam shell earlier on). and (top) a film pack that has not been used (all the tabs that can be seen)

pic 7 shows the film pack inserted in the film pack holder ready to be placed in the camera ready for use.

the film pack holders have little to no use nowadays. the film packs are no longer available. even though on ebay people list pack holders for sale! they may as well give them away

Ian Grant
11-12-2008, 10:25 AM
the film pack holders have little to no use nowadays. the film packs are no longer available. even though on ebay people list pack holders for sale! they may as well give them away

Not quite true, some people convert film packs holders into focus screen holders etc, but that is all they are useful for now.

Ian

Anastigmatic
11-12-2008, 03:28 PM
well that would be why i said 'have little use' instead of 'have no use' .but thanks anyway. probably able to count on one hand the people that do use them for that though, just not as ergonomic, pleasent or as nice as using the real thing,but if ya got no choice.