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Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 02:50 PM
Ron ,

May be , paper would be developed with E6 and exposed with color filters :)

And you had been said , there would be salts in kodachrome coupler developer mix , do they effect color or stability ?

Umut

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 03:19 PM
Color paper using Kodachrome chemistry is difficult to do with the modern process due to the difficulty of exposing the bottom layer to red light. The support blocks the light. Color papers based on Kodachrome would require the use of the old differential bleach process.

Using Kodachrome dyes for dye transfer would require modification to add a sulfonic acid or other ionic group to allow mordanting. In any event, only the cyan would be needed to get a Kodachrome like effect. Dye bleach is far easier due to the ease of purchasing the dyes and other chemicals needed.

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Color paper using Kodachrome chemistry is difficult to do with the modern process due to the difficulty of exposing the bottom layer to red light. The support blocks the light. Color papers based on Kodachrome would require the use of the old differential bleach process

When I was working at prepress , I had many paper catalogs and they were transparent but gives a polished surface.

Would it be too costly to do this paper.

Does it transparency to positive result process ? This paper could be used by ULF people also.

How many layers does it need and can we coat at home ?

Does it need to be developed by E6 ?


Using Kodachrome dyes for dye transfer would require modification to add a sulfonic acid or other ionic group to allow mordanting. In any event, only the cyan would be needed to get a Kodachrome like effect. Dye bleach is far easier due to the ease of purchasing the dyes and other chemicals needed.

You had been said many times only cyan was needed for Kodachrome effect.
Does c16 coupler and developer mix in water + alkali mixture , completes the dye transfer cyan color need.

Thank you ,

Umut

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 07:31 PM
Umut;

ANY paper product based on Kodachrome would be difficult and would require at least 9 emulsions in at least 6 layers minimum. The same coating structure and emulsion configuration is needed for paper. The E6 process cannot be used without substantial modifications.

The Kodachrome dye can be made by dissolving the coupler in alkali and adding a color developer. Then you add an oxidant such as peroxide. The dye forms and then you extract the dye with an extraction method of some sort and recrystallize the pure dye. This dye can then be used for other purposes. If you have attached a sulfonic acid group, then it is ideal for making dye transfers, but the dye stability will not be very good as compared to the real dye transfer or the real Kodachrome.

Due to the added sulfonic acid group, the hue will also change.

PE

Athiril
07-16-2011, 09:14 PM
Not unless he sends me one. ;)

PE

I'd be happy to send you a cake :laugh:

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 09:17 PM
Does it have a prize in it like a plum pudding? Maybe a silver coin or a Super Hero toy. Either would do! :D

PE

Athiril
07-16-2011, 09:20 PM
How about a Nikola Tesla figurine? :)

We used to have the silver coin thing at Christmas.

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 10:47 PM
Well, frankly, I like authentic plum podding better than chocolate cake. More flavor. But here, we called it "Johnny Bull Pudding".

Anyhow, I really cannot eat desserts anymore as I am trying to reduce. Thanks Dan!

:D

PE

Athiril
07-16-2011, 11:03 PM
No desserts?! Well you know what they say; coffee makes it possible to get out of bed, but chocolate makes it worthwhile! :)


I'd like to see someone try and pod plums...:laugh:

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 11:38 PM
I have a cup of chocolate every day! See my answer on the other thread Dan.

PE

wildbillbugman
07-16-2011, 11:53 PM
[QUOTE=Photo Engineer;1210198]On my "to do" list after the book is finished:

1. High speed panchromatic emulsion (ISO 100 - 400) I have been trying with poor results, but I have a new setup as shown in other threads.

Ron, Are you using the Sands dyes that you suggested to us so long, long ago?
Are your "poor results" poor with regard to color balance? Speed? Something else?
A venture dear to me wee little (but hard as a diamond) heart!
Bill:alien:

Photo Engineer
07-17-2011, 11:32 AM
Bill;

I have dyes from Sands and now from Honeywell in Germany. I will be using those.

The faults in the emulsion include sever aggregation due to less than optimal mixing as I noted in another post here. The problem also includes low speed due to the mixing and also due to the low flow rates required for the nucleation step. I am working on all of these.

If you look at most of the emulsions we make, we use high speed addition (1 - 10 mins) with very concentrated solutions of Silver Nitrate and salt. So we may add very rapidly. The modern high speed emulsions that I worked with require similar addition times for the nucleation step, but use very very dilute solutions at very very low flow rates. Then you go to the high flow rate to grow the crystal. These makes take up to 3 hours.

PE

dwross
07-17-2011, 12:44 PM
Bill;

I've thought about this for a day or so since you suggested that the book be released first. I see your reasoning but I would like to bring to your attention the fact that you have seen all parts of my course, and this may be influencing your POV. For those who are wavering about homemade emulsions, perhaps the disk will be valuable to them, as much so as the book.

PE

OK, I'm flummoxed. I completely agree with the above sentiment. If just a bit of written explanatory info could be included with the DVD, I think the book will be the icing on the cake, not the other way around. Is it really so important to understand every little detail of the physical chemistry of emulsion making to make an emulsion -- a good emulsion -- and enjoy the process?

I've been cheerleading for the book for five years. I very much look forward to reading it, but it will be a wonderful addition, not a necessary starting point. All the threads here on APUG and The Light Farm have more than enough technical info for beginners. Moving pictures are the ideal next step (and I don't wanna do it :) ) Go, PE, go!

d
www.thelightfarm.com

Photo Engineer
07-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Thanks Denise. I take delivery of a case of disks on Monday or Tuesday. Now I have to sell them or keep them in a safe place here! They are done. There was one error on the DVD, and it was corrected in a very amusing way.

I have been thinking about a stuffer for the DVD with some explanatory information.

I am editing the book at present, but the hot weather and Bob Shanebrook's very good editing have slowed me down a bit. I'll get there. After that, I have two more editorial note sheets to go over and then I have to add a section on sensitometry and one on mixing, fix the bibliography, and then renumber pages, figures and TOC. I have already finished several pages of corrections from others, so that is behind me.

I'll be done soon unless I melt from the heat.

PE

wildbillbugman
07-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Bill;

I have dyes from Sands and now from Honeywell in Germany. I will be using those.



PE
Hi Ron,
Now I just godda ask: What is it about the Honeywell dyes that intrests you? Will you be using them to the exclusion of the Sands dyes? Do I have the wrong $150.00/gram dyes? The Sands dyes seam to be doing what they are suppoed to do. But is there a potentialy better way? O course! There is ALWAYS a better way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
As regarding the Book first rather than the DVD first rather than the Book first:
" In The Beginning was The Word. " - Somewhere in the Christian Bible.
Not " In The Biginning was the DVD.";)

wildbillbugman
07-17-2011, 03:59 PM
Steve,
I whole heatedly agree. (And I rarely agree with anyone about anything.) Not only is Denise's www.thelightfarm.com a very clear "no nonsense" guide to emulsion making, but Denise was of immeasurable help to me when I started actualy making emulsions. This was about 18 months after taking Ron's workshop and I was rusty, to say the least. I can attest to the fact that, when Denise says something about silver/gelatin emulsion making, it is based on rigerous testing and retesting. No B.S. ever comes from her mouth or fingers, when it comes to emulsions.
Bill

Photo Engineer
07-17-2011, 04:37 PM
Bill;

Honeywell has a blue sensitizing dye, an antihalation dye and an acutance dye. Thats about it for what I have. Basically, what I could not find at Sands, I found at Honeywell and vice versa.

PE

wildbillbugman
07-17-2011, 04:53 PM
PE,
A blue sensitising dye- y to uncrease overal speed(?). Is it possible for a "civilian" to purchase these dyes?
Bill

Photo Engineer
07-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Bill;

You can surely order them. I got the blue dye to improve the sensitivity of the Azo emulsion in some experiments. Yes, you can increase blue sensitivity with dyes, just not a great deal.

PE

Kirk Keyes
07-17-2011, 07:38 PM
I'll be done soon unless I melt from the heat.

PE

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