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michaelbsc
07-15-2011, 09:32 PM
This is available (now that I have my insurance fixed up and now that I have incorporated), but it is a bit pricey! :D

Only, you come here! :D

PE

How pricy? It might be worth it. You'd be shocked at how much I could sponge up with two weeks one-on-one.

Photo Engineer
07-15-2011, 09:40 PM
Please contact me for details.

PE

Kirk Keyes
07-16-2011, 12:44 AM
Yes Ron,
I will admit that you have a good argument there. But I will say that anyone who depends entirely on the DVD and dose not read the book, would be doing himself a disservice. Personaly, I would rather visualize from a well written book than see "the real thing". But then, I was a poet 30 years befor I picked up a camera.
Bill

I agree with Bill - the video is like icing on the cake, with the book being the cake.

I would sell them together as a pair, at least initially, or price them so that it's not that much more to get them both compared to individually. They need to be seen as a set.

I've seen the video (and a version of the book from a couple years ago) and it's good and quite usefull for seeing how thing's are done and how to set stuff up, but without the details and theory in the book, the student may well be able to make an emulsion, but they will not know many of the reasons as to why they are doing certain steps.

Sirius Glass
07-16-2011, 06:06 AM
Bill;

I've thought about this for a day or so since you suggested that the book be released first. I see your reasoning but I would like to bring to your attention the fact that you have seen all parts of my course, and this may be influencing your POV. For those who are wavering about homemade emulsions, perhaps the disk will be valuable to them, as much so as the book.

PE

I will buy the book, but I do not think that I will try making emulsions because of the difficulty of making a useful product. However, if I can see a video on the parts I think are hard, it would be much more likely that I will give it a problem.

Steve

Athiril
07-16-2011, 09:37 AM
I agree with Bill - the video is like icing on the cake, with the book being the cake.

I would sell them together as a pair, at least initially, or price them so that it's not that much more to get them both compared to individually. They need to be seen as a set.

I've seen the video (and a version of the book from a couple years ago) and it's good and quite usefull for seeing how thing's are done and how to set stuff up, but without the details and theory in the book, the student may well be able to make an emulsion, but they will not know many of the reasons as to why they are doing certain steps.


Here is a picture of a cake I made a few days ago, icing can make the whole cake.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267702_10150262047367661_611887660_7318687_8311822 _n.jpg

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Ok, ok, I give up. They go out together. Thanks for the feedback.

PE

Hexavalent
07-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Ok, ok, I give up. They go out together. Thanks for the feedback.

PE
Does that mean that Athiril's tasty looking cake comes with the book/DVD? :D

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 11:33 AM
Not unless he sends me one. ;)

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 12:23 PM
Ron ,

Will you begin to kodachrome like film project after book is done ? I dont want to start a thread and no mouse stirring from your side also.
I read the archives and it was a beatiful start up.

Umut

wildbillbugman
07-16-2011, 12:45 PM
Good Lord Mustafa,
You set high bars! And you do it frequently. I would hate to work for a company owned by you. But then mabe it would be fun.

I have made a deliberate descission that color film/emulsions will never be on my list of "things to do". I have plenty to do with a panchro emulsion suitable for color seps.
Bill

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 01:07 PM
On my "to do" list after the book is finished:

1. High speed panchromatic emulsion (ISO 100 - 400) I have been trying with poor results, but I have a new setup as shown in other threads.

2. Color print material based on dye bleach. I have shown a single layer magenta in another thread and passed a sample around to the students at the last workshop at GEH.

3. A new book and maybe a DVD on the above along with advanced precipitation methods and mixing.

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 01:53 PM
Ron ,

New book is a great idea and in addition everyone can buy a bw film or color paper but kodachrome is gone. You are the one who will able to resurrect the kodachrome. May be you keep my wish and write.
May be forum is not the best place and offtrack and keep you busy and tired and you so, can write articles on it. Please have think about it. And I read your advises on kodachome ink jet projects and I found how excellent advises you gave.
Do you have spectrums about kodachrome dyes ? I want to learn more about them.

Thank you ,

Umut

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 02:01 PM
Umut;

I have posted the spectra of the dyes in a thread with the words in the title "love hate". I have lost the URL for it here on APUG. But, I assure you that I have no intention of duplicating Kodachrome. It would take a genuine coating machine as shown here on APUG and it would have to be considerably different than the one shown.

As for APUG taking time, well, I run Word here and my browser so it is easy to edit and flip back and forth. I also take time away from the screen to take walks, exercise and swim, so I am not always here.

Of course, many people have said that I am not all here! ;) (English slang expression for being somewhat crazy)

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 02:29 PM
Ron ,

My last post about Kodachrome. Is it possible to make a color print paper , transparency to positive paper , may be for contact printing , a kodachrome dyes using paper , may be it would run parallel with your color paper target.
Or can we do dye transfer system which runs with kodachrome dyes. You said me it was possible to use coupler + developer for extracting dye. May be , we could use this mixture without extraction. Its water based and water evoprates with heated air and dye remains on paper.

What do you say ?

Thank you very much ,

Umut

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 02:50 PM
Ron ,

May be , paper would be developed with E6 and exposed with color filters :)

And you had been said , there would be salts in kodachrome coupler developer mix , do they effect color or stability ?

Umut

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 03:19 PM
Color paper using Kodachrome chemistry is difficult to do with the modern process due to the difficulty of exposing the bottom layer to red light. The support blocks the light. Color papers based on Kodachrome would require the use of the old differential bleach process.

Using Kodachrome dyes for dye transfer would require modification to add a sulfonic acid or other ionic group to allow mordanting. In any event, only the cyan would be needed to get a Kodachrome like effect. Dye bleach is far easier due to the ease of purchasing the dyes and other chemicals needed.

PE

Mustafa Umut Sarac
07-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Color paper using Kodachrome chemistry is difficult to do with the modern process due to the difficulty of exposing the bottom layer to red light. The support blocks the light. Color papers based on Kodachrome would require the use of the old differential bleach process

When I was working at prepress , I had many paper catalogs and they were transparent but gives a polished surface.

Would it be too costly to do this paper.

Does it transparency to positive result process ? This paper could be used by ULF people also.

How many layers does it need and can we coat at home ?

Does it need to be developed by E6 ?


Using Kodachrome dyes for dye transfer would require modification to add a sulfonic acid or other ionic group to allow mordanting. In any event, only the cyan would be needed to get a Kodachrome like effect. Dye bleach is far easier due to the ease of purchasing the dyes and other chemicals needed.

You had been said many times only cyan was needed for Kodachrome effect.
Does c16 coupler and developer mix in water + alkali mixture , completes the dye transfer cyan color need.

Thank you ,

Umut

Photo Engineer
07-16-2011, 07:31 PM
Umut;

ANY paper product based on Kodachrome would be difficult and would require at least 9 emulsions in at least 6 layers minimum. The same coating structure and emulsion configuration is needed for paper. The E6 process cannot be used without substantial modifications.

The Kodachrome dye can be made by dissolving the coupler in alkali and adding a color developer. Then you add an oxidant such as peroxide. The dye forms and then you extract the dye with an extraction method of some sort and recrystallize the pure dye. This dye can then be used for other purposes. If you have attached a sulfonic acid group, then it is ideal for making dye transfers, but the dye stability will not be very good as compared to the real dye transfer or the real Kodachrome.

Due to the added sulfonic acid group, the hue will also change.

PE

Sirius Glass
07-16-2011, 07:43 PM
Umit,

Look at the lengthy APUG threads about every combination of forcing the out dated, difficult Kodachrome technology into every thing imaginable and unimaginable. The short version is that you can't get there from here and any practical way.

Steve

Athiril
07-16-2011, 09:14 PM
Not unless he sends me one. ;)

PE

I'd be happy to send you a cake :laugh: